Ariel.Club Forum

John Scherrer wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:01 am I posted this a while back - may be useful ?

The new '4' has 7Jx16 Front with Avon ZZR 195/50 R16
9Jx17 Rear with Avon ZZR 255/40 R17

You'd need the wider rear mudguards ..
3.5R Wheel Spec.jpg

Is the PCD the same on the 4?

The '4' rear wheels are 17", so those tyres aren't going to go on 16" rims ..

Not sure about the PCD sizes on the '4' wheels Hamid, best someone asks the factory !

hamtt wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:41 am Is the PCD the same on the 4?

I asked for the pcd of the 4 and the factory won't share it. You would therefore need to look on a 4 car now that they are rolling off. Not sure why this is such a secret as it can be easilly measured once you have the new wheels.

Simon

You should be able to calculate the PCD of the wheels of your car by referring to the website below :

http://www.mwsint.com/site/cms/contentv ... rticle=661

I hope that you find it useful!

This is very helpful thanks autobackup!

I have bookmarked this site. Now just need someone to measure the 4 wheels!

What’s the secret with the PCD, have they invented a new standard of measurement, or are they just being difficult for the sake of it?

When I find one, I’ll measure it!

I think they want people to buy the forged wheels from the factory. I wanted to know the pcd so I could source my own forged wheels, hence getting the car sooner instead of waiting for the factory ones that are not yet ready. I need to know the offset as well, neither of which would be shared.

The factory forged wheels do look amazing, but there should be a choice for customers if they want.

simonrhart wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:44 pm I think they want people to buy the forged wheels from the factory. I wanted to know the pcd so I could source my own forged wheels, hence getting the car sooner instead of waiting for the factory ones that are not yet ready. I need to know the offset as well, neither of which would be shared.

The factory forged wheels do look amazing, but there should be a choice for customers if they want.

Same as the aero kit, the sequential box, aero wishbones.....

I do wonder why the factory is seemingly incapable of supplying these things, but have been happy to take deposits from those who have said they want these options?

'Hey Ferrari, I want to buy some wheels to fit my 812, but not from you, tell me all the details I need so I can give the business to someone else'

'You English, you are so funny'

AlanP wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 pm 'Hey Ferrari, I want to buy some wheels to fit my 812, but not from you, tell me all the details I need so I can give the business to someone else'

Ok, I get that... but imagine if every single electronics manufacturer decided to use a different battery, shape size and voltage. A bit like mobile phone manufactures do. No more AAA, AA, D or PP3 batteries, no you'd need to buy the right battery from the right manufacturer for everything from the kitchen scales to your smoke alarm or your kids toy car.

Being silly further, imagine if you needed a specific type of fuel for each and every car, so you needed to fill up with Ariel fuel, or Ford fuel, or Ferrari fuel.

Ariel do pretty well most of the time, so I'm not bashing them... the above is just a silly example of how allowing manufacturers to tie you in could be a tad annoying.

There's two ways Ariel could have gone with this.

I don't think originally they wanted to use an awkward PCD but were just left lumbered with that because of the MGF hub that was used. Generally speaking products that "share" common components/specs tend to do better over time (think of computers at the beginning, there were numerous brands with proprietary technologies but the PC as we know it now thrived because any manufacturer could make any component and they were all more or less interchangeable, and each specific manufacturer pushed the boundaries in their specialised fields). You could argue some of the hot-hatches have become so popular because they are so easy (and cheap) to modify (whether in the styling sense or in the mechanical sense). If Ariel had this attitude then they would obviously use a hub with a common PCD.

HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products and if they believe their brand is strong enough, they could stick to an awkward PCD just so people can only buy the wheels from them. After all, it’s just one component in the whole of the car and I doubt anyone will be put off from buying an Atom just because they can’t find many wheels for it. I strongly believe this is the route Ariel will have taken. It’s sad in a way to see but completely understandable from their POV. If that’s the case I’ll just have to get Rolta to knock up some more wheels…

hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:58 am HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products

I can see why you'd say this... and I agree, they are... but I think it's for a different reason. As you'd be aware, since you do too, they spend a significant amount of time/money designing parts for the car, wings being a good example of this.

As with any design or copyright, they're not best happy when people then copy that, making profit instead of them recouping costs.

I realise you may suffer their wrath more than I, and I'd not for one second say you're out to rip them off, I just figure that if you made only novel bolt ons, rather than things that are similar to what the factory produce you'd have next to no hassle. I'm not suggesting you do that btw, it was a metaphorical "you".

In most regards the fact the car is a physical object, as opposed to lines of software/electronics makes things a lot easier, since you can't hide the size, shape, angle etc of things.

phil4 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:34 am

hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:58 am HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products

I can see why you'd say this... and I agree, they are... but I think it's for a different reason. As you'd be aware, since you do too, they spend a significant amount of time/money designing parts for the car, wings being a good example of this.

As with any design or copyright, they're not best happy when people then copy that, making profit instead of them recouping costs.

I realise you may suffer their wrath more than I, and I'd not for one second say you're out to rip them off, I just figure that if you made only novel bolt ons, rather than things that are similar to what the factory produce you'd have next to no hassle. I'm not suggesting you do that btw, it was a metaphorical "you".

In most regards the fact the car is a physical object, as opposed to lines of software/electronics makes things a lot easier, since you can't hide the size, shape, angle etc of things.

I don't see how using a common pcd would allow anyone to benefit from their intellectual property. All it would do is allow people to use a bigger range of wheels, majority of which would have existed before they even designed their own wheel. And realistically, how many different shapes can you have to a wheel before it starts looking 'similar'.

Trying to corner or capture a market is a fools game in the long run, as can be seen all across the board in pretty much any industry, whether it was Commodore with computers or the Hunt brothers with silver.

hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:49 am I don't see how using a common pcd would allow anyone to benefit from their intellectual property.

On that specific, I agree.. I suspect the reason for it was different. And I agree (As stated earlier about batteries/fuel) lock in is bad.

I was talking more generally as you you'd said they're very protective of their IP.

phil4 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 am

.. I suspect the reason for it was different.

To limit your choice so they are the only place yiu can buy the wheels from ofcourse. But this is is all just speculation, let's wait and see what the actual pcd is. We may be pleasantly surprised.

It's not just their IP they're protective of. They have every right to do that. But over the past years a few different manufacturers have tried to introduce products and all they've done is knock them without consideration.