Bell cranks

[mapes]

Anyone able to offer up any advice on greasing the bell cranks on my Atom 2? Any pics? Is it a shocks off job and remove the bell crank/dismantle?, or simply a spray insitu with appropriate lube? If the bell cranks have to come off, anyone know the torque setting for the 6mm allen screw when putting them back on?
Thanks.

[smokin]

Hi Mapes,

Do you know which sort you have? Roller Bearing or Phosphore Bronze bushes?

They look like the latter, but it's difficult to tell from the pic.

If they're the bushes then there's nowt to do (other than save up for an upgrade). They're self-lubing http://www.atomclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,8846.msg177868.html#msg177868

If they're roller bearings then these two threads will help

http://www.atomclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,1541.90.html
http://www.atomclub.com/forum/index.php/topic,9119.msg183206.html#msg183206

To remove, it's shock off, pushrod off, unbolt crank and slide off.

To clean the RBBCs I submerge in degreaser and scrub thoroughly with an old toothbrush. Rinse thoroughly and airgun dry. I lube up with Silkolene Pro RG2

Haven't seen a torque val for them but I do lean on the key some what

[mapes]

Lots of reading material there.. but very useful, thanks. I have the Phosphore bronze bell cranks. It looks like the cost of converting them to RBBC was about £1,000 ten years ago, so I need to think again about unsticking my PB ones. 

[PeR4]

Bought a set for my AA2 a year ago, I’m very happy with this change, no more sticking suspension.
Price for «1 Car Set Race Needle Roller Bell Crank» was one year ago 995£ +VAT.
Factory price levels are stable 

[mapes]

Worth knowing, thanks for that - did you need to upgrade your shocks aswell? - to a harder damping (I have the standard original non adjustable Bilsteins)

[PeR4]

Yes, I understand that the dampers should be rebuilt. Maybe better to buy secondhand the 10 x adjustable Bilsteins from members that upgrade to Øhlins or similar.

[PhillipM]

Whilst P-B is self lubricating it should be used with oil or grease wherever possible - you will find most commercial or industrial P-B bushes have grease grooves and injection holes.

Oilite is not the same as a plain P-B bush, it's a porous bronze sponge basically, and holds oil internally, grease will block this up, however, you can refresh them by submerging them in hot oil for 30 minutes or so.
If they are oilite and not P-B, then whoever picked those at the factory to start with needs a slap around the back of the head, Oilite shouldn't be used for bushes with tiny reciprociating movements, especially under heavy load, it's designed to work on a rotating shaft to draw the oil out and generate a working film between the surface. Terrible idea.
Phosphor Bronze plain bushes or even some split acetal or similar would have been far better, never mind the roller bearing ones.

They're pretty simple designs, it wouldn't be hard to modify them for that (or needle bearings) yourself if you have a little engineering skill and it'd be a lot cheaper than the factory option.

[mapes]

Thanks, but I'm no engineer, so I'll have a go perhaps at removal/cleaning/re-lubing and see where that takes me. If no better then I'll consider the upgrade, which everyone seems to say works wonders. .

[PhillipM]

It will do, there'll be effectively no oil between the pivots after it's done a little milage so you're basically running on dry bronze. Standard Oilite has very little in the way of solid lubricants in the mix, unlike most P-B flavours which have a good amount of lead and graphite in the mix for when the lube has been pushed out.
The difference in friction between the plain bronze when dry compared to roller bearings will be enormous.

Actually, despite what the factory said in the other thread, you might find it's better to run them well greased -  because I don't really think it's going to matter that you block the micro-pores in the Oilite anyway - the oil will barely be doing anything because of the reciprocating motion and the loads involved with the crank arms being so short.
If it were me I'd put a calcium complex EP grease in there and try them. (well, actually, I'd make new ones with bearings, but....to put me on I'd grease them )

edit - specifically, something like:
https://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/products/auto/greases/k323-premium-blue-grease-12-5kgs.html

[mapes]

Sounds interesting, might give that a try. Cheers!