HONDATA -vs- K Pro ECU

[AtomFun]

I'm not to well up on this but I know there's an alternative to the HONDATA ECU as fitted to the 245 - I think it's referred to as the K Pro.

From what I've read elsewhere the K Pro ECU is 'user configurable'.

Can any one give me the 'low down' on the different types of ECUs for the Atom? Is anyone messing in this area?

[FAST BUCK]

As far as i know the only benefit of the k pro is that you can play with it your self, i.e turn up at the track and program it to take race fuel!
You plug your own laptop into a k pro, been told it takes 15 mins?
You need a k pro to remap a k100.
Depends how serious you are?
The one Ariel are selling you will be fine
I havent upgraded so they must be!

[AtomFun]

How you gonna respond to the JL paint job?

[upnatom]

Fastbuck is correct, but from the thread title I think there may be a little confusion here. The 245 *has* a Hondata ECU, which is the K100, this can be take a map created by a K-Pro. The K-Pro - also from Hondata - can be used to create a map (in combination with a laptop).

The reason that Ariel use the K100 is that its cheaper, and they assume you'll not be writing your own map. As the K100 and K-Pro both run the same maps, once they have been configured there will be no difference in operation (i.e. no possiblilty for more power from a K-Pro).

See http://www.hondata.com/ for full information.

[AtomFun]

Just out of curiosity, are we talking about a single EPROM (chip)? Is it socketed or soldered? Perhaps the whole unit is different!

[upnatom]

Both Hondata options are just hacked genuine Honda ECUs. A connection is made to the original chip, and then a daughter board is installed with an extra hondata chip on it. I'm pretty sure there is no way to blag a K100 into thinking its a K-Pro, if thats where you're coming from.

[AtomFun]

Was a thought! 

[benyeats]

Mine has a Pectel ECU which is fully programmable, however I have not been able to blag the laptop software yet.  Will post more when I know more.  As a guide the previous owner of my car (Bruntingthorpe) spent about £5k on fitting this along with traction control.

Ben

[AtomFun]

Not a simple case of removing an eprom & copying it then!

[lemover]

[quote="AtomFun"]
Not a simple case of removing an eprom & copying it then!
[/quote]

Nope, they are a "Falsh" style computer that uses a a chip called a Flash PROM. To reprogram it you need to have a device that holds a encryption code (opens chip to programming), reprogramer, and (using the code again) lock the chip. If you don't lock it, the programming will be erased on the first power off. Most Lap top programs can do this, and its automatic. You just give the program the parameters, and off it goes.

[krystar]

as already mentioned,  Kpro is the next step up from K100.  K100 uses a dealer-defined calibration.  the dealer being Ariel.  Kpro is a user-configurable system.  user being you the enduser or a shop that tunes your engine for you.

Kpro consists of the daughterboard and the USB interface port.  You plug in your laptop and load up the Kmanager software and from there you can datalog, adjust & upload caibrations , change parameters. 

one thing different in the system that's used though.  K100, since it uses a dealer defined calibration, means that that calibration must work at all times.  thus, it means that calibrations loaded into a K100 system are generally of the "safer" variety since if there are problems, it's hard to fix.    Kpro calibrations though, since they can be changed at will, have more potential to be more refined to detail to fit.  If there are any problems down the road, be it detonation, fuel, changes to engine configuration, diagnosis of engine codes, it's as easy as plugging the laptop in and changing it on the spot.  with K100, u'd have to take the car back to the dealer and have them retune the calibration. 



I know this is wierd coming from a 1st post user.    I've owned the Kpro for more than a year now and right now my Acura RSX (sibling car to the euro civic typeR) has a comptech supercharger on it doing 8psi and about 280ish whp.    I only wish that I could transplant the engine into an Atom shell hhehehe.     

[AtomFun]

Thanks for the post Krystar and of course you're more than welcome to this forum. As you might have noticed if you've been lurking around here for a while, we're all very techie 

Two questions:

1. Is the process of upgrading from the Hondata ECU to the KPro simply a case of swapping or plugging in a daughter board? What's actually involved?

2. Is the KManager software expensive and easily obtained?

Presumably it would be a simple process of re-programming to the basic parameters if one screwed up with settings? That's 3 questions but .......

Thanks for your input.

[krystar]

I'm not sure of the exact process of converting a K100 into a Kpro.    From the materials that I've gathered, the only difference between a K100 and a Kpro is that the daughterboard is different and the hole in the ECU housing for the USB plug.    The K100's reprogramming procedure as documented involves removing the motherboard from the ECU, then swapping daughterboards with a Kpro ECU.  I've never opened my ECU but that sounds like it's built on a slot card or something equivalent.  So the upgrading process would probably just machining the hole in the ECU and putting the Kpro daugterboard in. 


the Kmanager software is continualy being upgraded with new features.    it's free for download at http://hondata.com/downloads.html      it comes with a library of starter calibrations.  The one that's probably applicable for the Atom 245 and up is the JRSC 5-7psi and JRSC 9psi.    for the Atom 200-225...i'm not so sure which one to use.  the most commonly used one is the coldair for naturally aspirated applications.  but then the Atom's intake and header are so much different than from a RSX that's it's probably not the optimal.  but it's a starting point.

The process of reprogramming goes something like this:
1) connect usb cable to ECU and other side to laptop.  I actually have an onboard desktop computer system in the car so it's always plugged in
2) load up previous calibration from the laptop hard drive.  if no previous, load up one of the library calibrations.
3) do whatever changes you need.  <--- this is the time consuming part.  finding out what changes you need.
4) hit Upload to ECU button.    the process takes about a minute.

[AtomFun]

Thanks for the info, all very informative.

I'm soon to get my 245 so wont be messing for a while and I guess the optimum has already been set in anyway.

[upnatom]

If you're going to change the mapping, then you'll probably want the car on a dyno at the time. Plenty of tuning shops can remap a K100 on the dyno, and won't charge much (any) less if you have a K-Pro, as they already have one of their own.

If the map Ariel uses really does generate 245bhp (a matter of hot debate for anyone who's talked to other tuners), then it is pretty optimal for power I'd say (no-one else I've met claims much more than 230 for that configuration). Of course Ariel use a generic map for all 245s, so getting your car individually tuned may get you the nth degree of smoothness. Ariel don't do the mapping themselves anyway, so you may choose to go directly to the tuners that they use to save a few quid (I know who they are, but I'm not sure that they're allowed to advertise the fact, so I guess I'd better not post it on an open forum).

For what its worth, we've had the K100 in our "300" (more like 280, but that's a different story) professionally remapped and gained a princely 2bhp... but it is much smoother now.