The Alpine/Euro Trip 2016 : 10 June - 19 June

[Curves Junkie]

@wasp
nice to read that the atom friends will visit the dolomiti alps this year. I love this mountain passes and there curves.

Do you have organisate the routes finished?
Do you have made the hotel reservation fix?

In my mind it is not a very good idea to stay overnight at Stelvio Refugio at the second week of June.
Look at this picture, it was made at 31.08.2012. We are on the way to Stelvios top 300 meter altitude difference we made this picture.
https://www.google.de/maps/place/46%C2%B032'33.7%22N+10%C2%B025'59.5%22E/@46.5334603,10.4286392,6022m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x0
We started one hour before with little rain.

[img width=980 height=768]http://abload.de/img/umbrai-snowaksc2.png[/img]

[wasp]

Curves Junkie,

Wow!!

I had no idea that it could still be like that in August!
I know that the passes are all supposed to be cleared before the date we arrive but I don't like the look of that all with track tyres on!
I don't think I have enough space to pack snow chains!

I have not had the time to sort the route properly yet and all of the Swiss hotels can be cancelled for free, so i think some more detailed planning regarding the height of passes will have to be done.

That really is making me rethink how to best approach the finished routes!

Thanks for the information.

Cheers,
Stu

[Curves Junkie]

[quote="wasp"]
I had no idea that it could still be like that in August![/quote]
The crazy thing was that before we started, 50 km away, we checked the situation. The Italians tell us it will be only raining but cold nearly 5°C.
Snowing starts only 10 hairpins before but then solid.
I had learnt one thing - that is, when it start snowing in the alps make a turn back.

[quote="wasp"]
I know that the passes are all supposed to be cleared before the date we arrive but I don't like the look of that all with track tyres on! [/quote]
You mean semislicks? Not slicks?
Look at the pic I had Toyo R888 on.

[quote="wasp"]
I don't think I have enough space to pack snow chains![/quote]
LOL
That brings me to ask you, where do you put your luggage on when you drive the car with 2 persons for this week?
I think in the boat is not enough space for more than 2 pair socks, 1 underwear, a soap and a toothbrush.

But hold on you need the boat for the police.
1 or 2 reflective vest, first-aid-kit and a triangular safety reflector.

[quote="wasp"]
I have not had the time to sort the route properly yet and all of the Swiss hotels can be cancelled for free, [/quote]
Do you have booked this 2 hotels in Swiss?
http://www.wallisersonne.com/
http://www.krone-buochs.ch/
Is this correct?
Please consider that Swiss is (extremly) expensive and the prices rised up 20% and more since the Swiss Franken is not more coupled to the EURO. Not only hotel, eating and drinking too.
That's my mind but I am a stingy Swabian.

[quote="wasp"]
... so i think some more detailed planning regarding the height of passes will have to be done.
That really is making me rethink how to best approach the finished routes![/quote]
I'm in the last years two or three times per year at the dolomitis with my sidecar. When I was gone I made a one-week-trip and tear down between 2500-3500 km in this week.
But Iam a freak - sitting down at morning on the sidecar and go up only at the evening. Driving 300-500 km per day.

If you want I can help you to plan the tour.

Rethinking:
How much cars?
What kind of car drivers? sunshine-driver, sightseeing-driver, passes-passes-passes-driver like me
Must have dinner or not?
possible NO highway? Italy speedlimit 110 km/h at highway, road charge per km, Swiss highway charge 38,50 € yearly vignette
Consider that in June the nights are cold, maybe under 0°C, so at morning it will be fresh and early evening too.

Wish list passes - must have?

In my mind if you will have a lot of fun you have to know how to ride the passes. e.g.
Nufen Pass best to ride from West to East
Grimsel from North to South

Is that correct that you want to drive at June,15th from Hotel Krone at Buochs to Trafoi?

What Navi do you have? TomTom Garmin or whatelse

Alex

[bodnet]

June 12th
Leaving Como and heading for Grimsel Pass, driving both Nufenen Pass and Grimsel Pass
Staying at Hotel rest. Walliser Sonne Spitz 26

When you reach Airolo and turn off the Gotthard Pass road towards the (awesome) Nufenen Pass, if you have time (and the weather is dry!) its worth seeking out the 'old road' up the Gotthard known as the Tremola Pass - 11km of awesome twisty ... cobbles!!! 

June 13th
Play day, staying at the same hotel and possibly heading to the Reichenbach falls

June 14th
Heading to Fluelen, via Susten Pass, Wassen
Staying at Krone Buochs- Hotel & Restaurant

When you get to Gletsch and turn left to the (fantastic) Grimsel Pass, its worth a quick diversion up the 'good side' of the Furka Pass up to the Belvedere Hotel and back 

The Susten Pass, unlike the hairpin-filled others, is more sweeping and flowing - and very frustrating in traffic! After our first trip I had in my mind that I hated it - but on the next trip we drove it about 6 or 7 pm, almost going dark, and it was empty and awesome!


Bod
(wish I could afford both trips  )

[bodnet]

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
That brings me to ask you, where do you put your luggage on when you drive the car with 2 persons for this week?
I think in the boat is not enough space for more than 2 pair socks, 1 underwear, a soap and a toothbrush.

But hold on you need the boat for the police.
1 or 2 reflective vest, first-aid-kit and a triangular safety reflector.
[/quote]

In the boot I take tyre foam, 3-in-1 spray, insulating tape, cable ties, spare bulbs and fuses (including one of the 'big' fuses that no-one knew about!), sun cream, shoggles, earpulgs, and some tools - screwdriver bit set inc hex, (also the imperial hex drive for the big rod ends!), leatherman (ie pliers + sharp blade), various bits of Velcro strap etc that I've accumulated over the years. of that all I've ever used is the 3-in-1, cable ties and insulting tape. and sun cream of course! (if you were to have major issues, basically any local garage will lend you tools so there's no need to take and big stuff. Ariel can post parts if needed lol )

Luggage solutions vary - must be waterproof of course. Some people like the big holdall in passenger footwell with passengers legs on top of it, I go for two waterproof rucksacks from Overboard, one stands upright in the passenger footwell and brings their feel back to level with mine, the other I have some ratchet straps which strap it up under the dash above the passenger's legs! its a bit of a faff to get it in (maybe 20 mins) but then it stays there all day.

I also have one of Overboard's kayak bags which clips on the outside of the frame (but it scuffs the frame a bit - maybe protect with tape?) - this carries documents, camera, spare gloves/fleeces etc. Finally helmet clips on the side of the frame when not being worn


Bod

[Curves Junkie]

[quote="Bod "]
Luggage solutions vary - must be waterproof of course. Some people like the big holdall in passenger footwell with passengers legs on top of it, I go for two waterproof rucksacks from Overboard, one stands upright in the passenger footwell and brings their feel back to level with mine, the other I have some ratchet straps which strap it up under the dash above the passenger's legs! its a bit of a faff to get it in (maybe 20 mins) but then it stays there all day.

I also have one of Overboard's kayak bags which clips on the outside of the frame (but it scuffs the frame a bit - maybe protect with tape?) - this carries documents, camera, spare gloves/fleeces etc. Finally helmet clips on the side of the frame when not being worn
[/quote]

Thx @Bod
Kayak bags outside of the frame - whats with the wind swirling? And the air turbulence for the passengers.
Sorry can't discribe it correct what I want to know.
Give me a link for the helmet clips please. I dont know what's that.

[bodnet]

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
[quote="Bod "]
Luggage solutions vary - must be waterproof of course. Some people like the big holdall in passenger footwell with passengers legs on top of it, I go for two waterproof rucksacks from Overboard, one stands upright in the passenger footwell and brings their feel back to level with mine, the other I have some ratchet straps which strap it up under the dash above the passenger's legs! its a bit of a faff to get it in (maybe 20 mins) but then it stays there all day.

I also have one of Overboard's kayak bags which clips on the outside of the frame (but it scuffs the frame a bit - maybe protect with tape?) - this carries documents, camera, spare gloves/fleeces etc. Finally helmet clips on the side of the frame when not being worn
[/quote]

Thx @Bod
Kayak bags outside of the frame - whats with the wind swirling? And the air turbulence for the passengers.
Sorry can't discribe it correct what I want to know.
Give me a link for the helmet clips please. I dont know what's that.
[/quote]

The kayak bag doesn't noticeably affect the wind flow.

Helmet - I just use the chin strap to attach it to the frame! again might be worth protecting the frame from abrasion.


Bod

[Steve Gibson]

I can't feel any difference to the windflow with the kayak bags on. But you must fix the rolled end of the bag around a chassis tube or it flaps a little. It's easy to do because of the straps on the rolled end.

Note – my picture shows the bag fully rolled up, NOT fixed to the diagonal tube.

Bod is right about slight abrasion on the chassis, but it's not noticeable if you have protection film on there.

You can move 30-40L of luggage out of the car, if you use two bags. Yellow is all they do – there's no black, which would suit the car better.

[Curves Junkie]

Thx you both for help.
Now I have to repaint my car to yellow. 

[smokin]

Haven't tried these but a possible alternative to the kayak bag

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Freeinaqua-Aquafree-dry-Waterproof-Backpack/dp/B01AA2698O/ref=sr_1_7?srs=8437159031&ie=UTF8&qid=1464169166&sr=8-7

[Curves Junkie]

Hello Stu,
any news about the Alpine Trip?
I want to hit you all at the evening of June 11th and drive back at June 17th.
You wrote:
[quote="wasp"]
June 11th
Leave Verona, heading for Como via Monza racetrack to look at the old banking etc.
Staying at Dependence del Parco, Porlezza

June 12th
Leaving Como and heading for Grimsel Pass, driving both Nufenen Pass and Grimsel Pass
Staying at Hotel rest. Walliser Sonne Spitz 26

June 13th
Play day, staying at the same hotel and possibly heading to the Reichenbach falls

June 14th
Heading to Fluelen, via Susten Pass, Wassen
Staying at Krone Buochs- Hotel & Restaurant

June 15th
Heading to Trafoi, via The Klausen Pass
Staying at Stelvio Residence

June 16th
Staying at the same hotel and having a play day including an early drive through the Stelvio Pass

[/quote]
Are these the correct hotels you have booked?
June, 11th http://www.dependence-del-parco.com/en/resort/
June, 12th+13th http://www.wallisersonne.com/en/
June, 14th http://www.krone-buochs.ch/en/
June, 15th+16th http://www.stelvio-residence.com/en.html

Questions about hotel.
Why the stelvio-residence - here you have self-catering. Do you want this? I am not. Or you have to walk 300 meter to bella-vista for breakfast and dinner for extra charge.
http://www.bella-vista.it/en.html have the same Family Thöni and you get there Bed&Breakfast&Dinner included, see here http://www.bella-vista.it/en/hotel/includes-services.html

Question about the tour:
At June 14th your tour goes via Wassen to Flüelen to Buochs? Correct?
The only way from Flüelen to Buochs is passing the highway 2 though the Seelisbergtunnel. There is really no other way.
For using highway in Swiss you have to buy a swiss motorway sticker for about 40 CHF https://www.ch.ch/en/swiss-motorway-sticker/
The alternative way is from Spitz hitting Furka passo, Andermatt, Wassen, hitting Susten passo, at Brienzwiler turn to north on 4 to Buochs. That's a really nice route.

Do you know how much peoples will hit the Alpine Trip?

[wasp]

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Hello Stu,
any news about the Alpine Trip?
I want to hit you all at the evening of June 11th and drive back at June 17th.
[/quote]

All going ahead as planned. We leave the UK on the 10th, getting the motorail from Dusseldorf and arriving in Verona on the 11th June


[quote="wasp"]
June 11th
Leave Verona, heading for Como via Monza racetrack to look at the old banking etc.
Staying at Dependence del Parco, Porlezza

June 12th
Leaving Como and heading for Grimsel Pass, driving both Nufenen Pass and Grimsel Pass
Staying at Hotel rest. Walliser Sonne Spitz 26

June 13th
Play day, staying at the same hotel and possibly heading to the Reichenbach falls

June 14th
Heading to Fluelen, via Susten Pass, Wassen
Staying at Krone Buochs- Hotel & Restaurant

June 15th
Heading to Trafoi, via The Klausen Pass
Staying at Stelvio Residence

June 16th
Staying at the same hotel and having a play day including an early drive through the Stelvio Pass

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Are these the correct hotels you have booked?
June, 11th http://www.dependence-del-parco.com/en/resort/
June, 12th+13th http://www.wallisersonne.com/en/
June, 14th http://www.krone-buochs.ch/en/
June, 15th+16th http://www.stelvio-residence.com/en.html

Questions about hotel.
Why the stelvio-residence - here you have self-catering. Do you want this? I am not. Or you have to walk 300 meter to bella-vista for breakfast and dinner for extra charge.
http://www.bella-vista.it/en.html have the same Family Thöni and you get there Bed&Breakfast&Dinner included, see here http://www.bella-vista.it/en/hotel/includes-services.html
[/quote]

Yes, these are the hotels. I went for the Stelvio Residence because it was the only one that guaranteed twin rooms and as much as I like my friend, I don't like him that much

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Question about the tour:
At June 14th your tour goes via Wassen to Flüelen to Buochs? Correct?
The only way from Flüelen to Buochs is passing the highway 2 though the Seelisbergtunnel. There is really no other way.
For using highway in Swiss you have to buy a swiss motorway sticker for about 40 CHF https://www.ch.ch/en/swiss-motorway-sticker/
The alternative way is from Spitz hitting Furka passo, Andermatt, Wassen, hitting Susten passo, at Brienzwiler turn to north on 4 to Buochs. That's a really nice route.
[/quote]

That's very interesting. I have been struggling with that router with TomTom planning and thought that we might change it when we get closer, depending on how the weather has been etc, Your route sounds better!

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Do you know how much peoples will hit the Alpine Trip?
[/quote]

There are just 4 of us in 2 cars. I could not do the dates that the Pyrenees trip is doing, so that's why we decided to go on our own to the Alps. Also, the motorail is quite expensive and will have put some people off. I have never driven the Alps, so I really wanted to do it!

We have dinner booked at 19.30 at the Dependence Del Parco and I'm sure we can easily add another space for you!

If you want my mobile number, send me a PM and it will be great to meet up!

Cheers,
Stu

[Curves Junkie]

[quote="wasp"]
June 11th
Leave Verona, heading for Como via Monza racetrack to look at the old banking etc.
Staying at Dependence del Parco, Porlezza

June 12th
Leaving Como and heading for Grimsel Pass, driving both Nufenen Pass and Grimsel Pass
Staying at Hotel rest. Walliser Sonne Spitz 26

June 13th
Play day, staying at the same hotel and possibly heading to the Reichenbach falls

June 14th
Heading to Fluelen, via Susten Pass, Wassen
Staying at Krone Buochs- Hotel & Restaurant

June 15th
Heading to Trafoi, via The Klausen Pass
Staying at Stelvio Residence

June 16th
Staying at the same hotel and having a play day including an early drive through the Stelvio Pass

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Are these the correct hotels you have booked?
June, 11th http://www.dependence-del-parco.com/en/resort/
June, 12th+13th http://www.wallisersonne.com/en/
June, 14th http://www.krone-buochs.ch/en/
June, 15th+16th http://www.stelvio-residence.com/en.html

Questions about hotel.
Why the stelvio-residence - here you have self-catering. Do you want this? I am not. Or you have to walk 300 meter to bella-vista for breakfast and dinner for extra charge.
http://www.bella-vista.it/en.html have the same Family Thöni and you get there Bed&Breakfast&Dinner included, see here http://www.bella-vista.it/en/hotel/includes-services.html
[/quote]

[quote="wasp"]
Yes, these are the hotels. I went for the Stelvio Residence because it was the only one that guaranteed twin rooms and as much as I like my friend, I don't like him that much [/quote][/quote]

OK, I understand. I don't like to hear the snoring in the bed next to me too. 
Here in Italy a single room is not much more expensive than a double room.

Are this hotels above all fixed booked and payed? Or can we change it to other hotels?

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Question about the tour:
At June 14th your tour goes via Wassen to Flüelen to Buochs? Correct?
The only way from Flüelen to Buochs is passing the highway 2 though the Seelisbergtunnel. There is really no other way.
For using highway in Swiss you have to buy a swiss motorway sticker for about 40 CHF https://www.ch.ch/en/swiss-motorway-sticker/
The alternative way is from Spitz hitting Furka passo, Andermatt, Wassen, hitting Susten passo, at Brienzwiler turn to north on 4 to Buochs. That's a really nice route.

[quote="wasp"]
That's very interesting. I have been struggling with that router with TomTom planning and thought that we might change it when we get closer, depending on how the weather has been etc, Your route sounds better![/quote][/quote]

Do you want to plan the tour with the TomTom 
Sorry forget it.
When I plan a tour in the alps I use the desktop program BaseCamp, but its only for Garmin and my resolution is often < 3km because if much greater you can't see the passes and the waypoints you need are everywhere but on on the correct road.
You must set waypoints first and then combine this points because you must force the TomTom/Garmin to drive this road that you want and no alternative.
Here a example, please check it out.
Start at Prad am Stilfserjoch, drive to Santa Maria im Münstertal, drive to Bormio
I am sure that your route goes over the lago di Livigno - it's a nice tour, but
the fabulous tour is turn left at Santa Maria im Münstertal to Umbraipass, driving downward on Passo dello Stelvio to Bormio
Look here: http://www.alpen-paesse.ch/en/alpenpaesse/umbrailpass/#gallery

[quote="Curves Junkie"]
Do you know how much peoples will hit the Alpine Trip?
[quote="wasp"]
There are just 4 of us in 2 cars. I could not do the dates that the Pyrenees trip is doing, so that's why we decided to go on our own to the Alps. Also, the motorail is quite expensive and will have put some people off. I have never driven the Alps, so I really wanted to do it![/quote][/quote]

I have a look at the motorail webside now. The price is horrible between 1150 and 1550 Euro for one car/two persons.
When you will come to the alps next year again I suggest to hire a professional car transporter for 8 cars from UK to Italy/Austria/South Germany. I think that's quite cheaper
Or drive by car and sleep one night more at hotel.

You was never at the Alps? Inconceivably for me. I love it. I am there multiple times per year.
But careful it is addictive and you will come every year. 

If you want I can help you to plan the routes, so speak with the others and contact me and we can talk details.


[quote="Curves Junkie"]
[quote="wasp"]
We have dinner booked at 19.30 at the Dependence Del Parco and I'm sure we can easily add another space for you!

If you want my mobile number, send me a PM and it will be great to meet up!
[/quote][/quote]

I hope we are at 19.30 at hotel. My wife have a event at the evening before, so I can't start very early at the morning and my tour to Porlezza go round about 10 hours without any stops.

[Steve Gibson]

I hope the weather is on your side.

You guys are going to love it. Swiss road trips are like nothing else.

[Curves Junkie]

[quote="Steve Gibson"]
I hope the weather is on your side.

You guys are going to love it. Swiss road trips are like nothing else.
[/quote]

Thx Steve,

At Realp is the temperatur at the moment 10,5 °C cloudy, raining and foggy.

But the big problem ist that most of the passes are closed at least to mid June.
They all closed:
Furka, Grimsel, Gotthard,  Nufenen, Susten
So I see no way to drive to the hotels in Reckingen or to Buochs.

The winter 2015/2016 was very late this year but as the snow came a large amount has fallen.
Normally the Gotthard opens at the End of May, but this year he is closed today.

Now I m waiting for a response from Stu. He is the alpine trip leader.