First Chinese Atom?

[Hedge]

How jingoistic can you get?
To suggest that a factory-supported overseas operation - because it's made in China - therefore devalues the product/ brand?

Of course, Brammo made such a good job of it when it was their turn, didn't they 

Cheers, Hedge

[skilly]

[quote="Curator"]

It may not be fair,but all I have to personally go on to base quality standards expected,is the quality of other products I have sampled from China,which are motorcycles,ATVs,tractors,power equipment.


[/quote]

I would beg to differ - this is my company www.smcgb.com  all looked after / overseen by an American company but made in China. We have had fantastic reviews, great reliability, and probably the best bike in the market for the price range. We have beaten KTM, Honda, etc in Enduro races.

[bolus]

Saying everything from China is substandard is just as retarded as the youtube comments on the Brammo video saying All GM engines suck and Honda rules.  yeah, I said retarded PC police

[silver]

[quote="bolus"]
Saying everything from China is substandard is just as retarded as the youtube comments on the Brammo video saying All GM engines suck and Honda rules.  yeah, I said retarded PC police
[/quote]

it's r'tard....queue the movie "The Hangover" OMG funny stuff

[Driver]

Manufacturer takes prototype over to China, Chinese give him checklist

Quality Setting:

• Max - Expensive but still half the price of domestic build
• High - Not so expensive
• Med - Affordable (by todays standards)
• Low - Good deal.
• sh1t - Cheap and everyone on late night tv and at the dollar store will get one. Greedy Suits line up to make a quick buck and get out while the getting is good. Harbor Freight buys a thousand units immediately.

I think I know where Simon would weigh in on such a list. Over here a manufacturer couldn't build such low quality stuff, do it because the lawsuits would kill them, ever heard of anyone sueing a manufacturer in China or overseas in general?

[Heywood-Yablowme]

I have purchased and used a few Chinese motorized vehicles. One of them is my 2008 Joyner Sand Viper 800 off road buggy. It has it's fair share of good qualities,but also very poor ones as well. I use it on a weekly basis and am happy to own it. The quality is no where near a similar Honda or Poalris ATV of similar price and size.
If anything,it is the best Chinese product I have purchased to date.
I do hope the quality of the Chinese Ariel Atom is better than my Joyner ATV.

[CalScot]

Many high quality/high tech products are made in China.  It's not all mass produced low end stuff for Wal Mart.
There are many very high quality fabricators in China that produce aerospace quality fabricated assemblies and parts. There is sufficent expertise to make an Atom chassis just as good as anywhere else. Many of the parts will be from the same sources as they are for the UK and US such as Engines, ECU, dash, wiring harnesses and more.

I think the biggest weakness they have in the big picture will be in the assembly and setup. The UK factory have years of experience that you just cannot buy. You can have detailed technical specs for assembling the car but there is little substitute for the experience and passion that the UK guys have. TMI's passion, overall motorsports experience and experience with the AAE really made them a great choice for the US.

Of course, China is such a new market. even if the first few Atoms go down the road sideways, they probably won't notice

[apollyon25]

[quote="Driver"]
Manufacturer takes prototype over to China, Chinese give him checklist

Quality Setting:

• Max - Expensive but still half the price of domestic build
• High - Not so expensive
• Med - Affordable (by todays standards)
• Low - Good deal.
• sh1t - Cheap and everyone on late night tv and at the dollar store will get one. Greedy Suits line up to make a quick buck and get out while the getting is good. Harbor Freight buys a thousand units immediately.

[/quote]

Exactly.
If the quality documentation is there then quality is not an issue.

The "cheap-chinese-crap" thinking is an archaic generalisation.
We have contract manufacturers in Thailand, Malaysia and China and they churn out more product, cheaper, faster and of better quality than we ever did (engineering prototypes not-withstanding).
All of our competitors' products are made in Asia somewhere.

Its the same thing as the 'made in japan' thinking prevalent 20 years ago.

Sure, you get crap products, but usually they are cheaper anyway. So you spend 10% of the 'real' cost of something, then complain when it breaks after a couple of years... pa lease.

[Driver]

You can take the word China out of my post and pretty much substitute any third world country that has a cheap labor force and no living wage. India, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc.. The quality of what comes out depends solely on what the person that hired them to build it wants to pay and how much they are willing to sacrifice their reputation for a quick dollar. This doesn't even count the cheap knockoffs that flood the market under no name brands which are (almost always) crap. I don't believe for one second that Simon is going to relax his standards.

[Heywood-Yablowme]

"I don't believe for one second that Simon is going to relax his standards."
 
Of that,I am sure.     However,while the cats away...

[benyeats]

[quote="Driver"]
You can take the word China out of my post and pretty much substitute any third world country that has a cheap labor force and no living wage. India, China, Malaysia, Taiwan, etc.. The quality of what comes out depends solely on what the person that hired them to build it wants to pay and how much they are willing to sacrifice their reputation for a quick dollar.
[/quote]

Actually you can substitute any country not just China / third world countries.  The Western world is perfectly capable of producing crap products and has proved this time after time.

[quote="Curator"]
If anything,it is the best Chinese product I have purchased to date.
[/quote]

Really ?  you don't own a Chinese made PC or television that has given you years of faithful service ?

Ben

[wisp]

[quote="Curator"]
I have purchased and used a few Chinese motorized vehicles. One of them is my 2008 Joyner Sand Viper 800 off road buggy. It has it's fair share of good qualities,but also very poor ones as well. I use it on a weekly basis and am happy to own it. The quality is no where near a similar Honda or Poalris ATV of similar price and size.
If anything,it is the best Chinese product I have purchased to date.
I do hope the quality of the Chinese Ariel Atom is better than my Joyner ATV.
[/quote]

I once worked with a draughtsman, who before immigrating from China, was employed in a factory whose sole purpose was to make carburettors for leading Japanese motorcycle companies.

[arielchina]

Curator, I know your starting point is positive, and I sincerely think you want us to be successful in this business venture. In any industry or business, without any enthusiastic devotees like you guys, we couldnâ??t grow or move forward to our potential and greatness. I should thank you all for your valuable opinions and advices. We are all the students of this industry especially me, and we definitely will work extra hard to reach the highest standard of Ariel.

Thanks again, Bolus. I certainly will keep you updated on our progresses.

George â?? DADOH. I like the idea to think to make a lower priced car. Like any other automobile company, they have different car models with different price range. With this new different model lower priced car, it pssibly will have a lower horsepower engine, with a new different look. I will keep this in mind.

Terry Kennedy, yes, the rollbar is from UK. But those 3 Atoms in the picture, they were assembled here with our made chassis, FRP parts and some other parts under the instruction of UK Ariel.

AtomStew, I totally agree with you - quality not quantity.

Ben, Hedge, Mark, Bolus, Silver, Driver, Curator, CalScot, Apollyon25 and wisp, I respect all your opinions. But my view on this - "why they have some quality issues",  is when a manufacturer takes a prototype over to a Chinese factory, there usually two ways cause this:

One way is: the manufacturer put the sample on the table and told the Chinese factory â??show me what you gotâ?�, then the factory bright some samples on the table, and told them like this one is the same quality as your sample, and the cost will be like this. Then thereâ??s lower quality one, but will be cheaper, and so on, like Driver said. Then the manufacturer will decide which one they prefer.

Another way is: the manufacturer brings the sample to the factory, and simply says make this but I will only give you this price. Then of course the factory will calculate the cost and their profit margin, and I sure everyone here agree with me on this: in the true world, there is no factory will do any business for free!

All I mean that sometimes is not just the factory's fault. What you get is what you pay for!

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Ben,PLEASE! I never said all Chinese products are rubbish. Only the motorized vehicles I have sampled have been..questionable.  We are not talking computers or electronics.

We are discussing the building of an Ariel Atom.

I hope they don't use "domestic built" motors and transaxles. I'm sure Simon will specify Honda...  

but....I  am skeptical that Simon can indeed control the build process completely..

these beliefs are based on what I have personally seen happen when products are transferred over to Chinese industry build standards.

Call me a skeptic. Hope I am wrong...


"One way is: the manufacturer put the sample on the table and told the Chinese factory â??show me what you gotâ?�, then the factory bright some samples on the table, and told them like this one is the same quality as your sample, and the cost will be like this. Then thereâ??s lower quality one, but will be cheaper, and so on, like Driver said. Then the manufacturer will decide which one they prefer."


"....Then the manufacturer will decide which one they prefer."

  We shall see.... I do not think the World needs "cheaper" Ariel Atoms.

"Another way is: the manufacturer brings the sample to the factory, and simply says make this but I will only give you this price. Then of course the factory will calculate the cost and their profit margin, and I sure everyone here agree with me on this: in the true world, there is no factory will do any business for free!"

I interpret this as saying...if Simon expects us to build the Atom and sell it for "X" amount of currency, then we,the factory, reserve the right to outsource components to make our profit margins.

Umm...here we go...


This line scares me too:   

"With this new concept lower priced car it will have a lower horsepower engine, with a new different look"


My Dad always said do it right,or don't do it at all.

Right?

[arielchina]

Curator, when you guys were talking about OTHER products, and discuss some of the quality issues, then I give you my honest opinions on that issue. I am not sure why you automatically assume this was on the issue of the Atoms. If I gave the expression about we were going to make a LOW quality of atom, then I am apologize for that.

On the "With this new concept lower priced car it will have a lower horsepower engine, with a new different look"
From Georgeâ??s reply, I got an idea and said to make a totally DIFFERENT new model of car that has low price and also as much fun as Atom. I am not sure what you have interpreted toâ?¦