Which type of brakes

[Moondust]

Hello

Can someone give some information/experience about the different types of brakes.

The standard brakes, the sport brake package and the Alcon brakes.

Maby someone who had one of those and changed it to an other system. Advantages en disadvantages.

Which are good, better best.

Thanks.

[Fastlane]

My Supercharged 3 has the Alcons and I have no experience of any other system. The standard are the cheapest, then sports then Alcons. I haven't seen any cars with the standard brakes as most either have sports, sports rears and Alcons front, or Alcons all round.

My thoughts are:

For purely road use on a 245, the standard brakes will be fine. For a supercharged car, then sports at a minimum.

For track use on a 245, sports minimum, or Alcons front and sports rear.

For track use on a supercharged car, then Alcons all round.

For resale of any Atom, bearing in mind any car can be upgraded to supercharged or 3.5 spec, then sports minimum but preferably Alcons.

You could also ring the factory and they will advise you on the nbest option for your usage.

Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

[atomiser]

Alcons front and rear stop you in 43m from 100, the standard ones don't.

On track you have alot more confidence to brake late.

The alcons also have better feel and seem to require less to switch them on(coming upto temp) though this is really a pad/disc thing.

Never noticed any brake fade with either, though the alcons seem to glaze the pads on a more frequent basis - this is probably a function of my (bad) driving

Also brake bias on track is essential to allow for different tyre and brake temps.

[K20A2]

This is for the Atom brakes and as far as I remember
(Nomad may be different)

Standard brakes:
- 240mm discs front and rear
- fronts ventilated, rears solid
- floating calipers

Sport brakes:
same version/dimension as Standard, but other discs and pads

Alcon brakes:
- 290x22mm ventilated discs
- 4-pot fixed caliper
- not sure whether the master cylinders are also different

[John Scherrer]

The MG brake options (Standard and Sports) have 0.625" (or 5/8") master cylinder bore size and included the handbrake and handbrake calipers/pads.

The Alcon conversion has a larger Master Cylinder upgrade to 0.7" bore ..
The rear Alcons don't have a handbrake as standard but this was an option ..

The bore size is embossed on the side of the master cylinder, so you can pull a muscle and take a look at yours ..

20120925_223149.jpg (2.75 MiB) Viewed 1081 times

[Antong]

I currently have a Nomad on standard brakes, it's fine but doesn't inspire huge confidence. I'm certain the sports pads will improve this a fair lump and it's a very cheap upgrade post fastory.

I have driven a car with Alcons and they are significantly stronger but i would caveat i still think my nomad on 18" A/T tires and standard brakes stops quicker than a Nomad on 15" mud tires with Alcons. This is purely down to grip..

Final thought - i've considering an upgrade with a handbrake kit too and the cost is about £5k!

[Moondust]

Thanks for the ideas, experiences.

I had already the idea that the standard was something temporary. And that an upgrade would follow.
But because i'm trying to decide what i start with is it maybe better to start of factory whith an upgrade.

[Moondust]

And the brake bias, is this helpfull for road/gravel use. Or is it only something you need on a track.

[John Scherrer]

As you probably know, the remote brake bias option allows the driver to dynamically move the braking effort from front to rear from the seat, whilst driving.

This is to ensure that on the braking limit, depending on tyre grip, tyre and track/road temperatures, rain and track surface conditions that the fronts just lockup before the rears.

It’s a relatively cheap option, looks the race car part and will make any resale easier - though easy to retrofit.
(It’s a standard Tilton part, not unique to Ariel.)

All of the standard cars have an adjustable brake balance configuration, you’ll just need to get out the spanners, tweak it and take it for a drive to see if it works.

Hope this helps ..

[Moondust]

Ok this was a clarifying explanation.

And indeed it's not the expensive for something that makes life easier when you want to tweak.

So the Bias in combination with the Alcons is probably a good start.

[RigidCollosion]

There is no such thing as the sports brakes any more. The factory fit the sports pads as standard (according to them). To be honest the only difference is some higher rated pads. I fitted a brake bias control myself (took 1/2 hour); that made a huge difference to be able to dial-in better braking balance front to rear.

The standard/sports brakes do require some serious stopping distance and promote a certain amount of paranoia about stopping, but once you get used to them and learn to apply more pressure, the world stops in good time. I have always driven my Nomad cautiously on the road due to the braking being a little slow. I always work on the theory that with that much acceleration available, no point entering a situation where I HAVE to rely on brakes to get me out of trouble. The standard brakes don’t lock up easily in the dry (if at all).

Just upgraded to Alcons. Boy what a difference! The 3” harnesses are straining at the stopping power. The flip side of this is that you can lock them easily, even in the dry. A different approach is needed from the ‘stand on the pedal as hard as you like’ technique described earlier.

In short the weak point of the standard brakes is the pad to disk contact and the number of pots (and consequently the perceived braking ‘strength’). The weak point of the Alcons is the tyre to road contact (especially with Nomad all terrain tyres). Both will stop you. Both require different skills. Both require you to pay attention.

[Moondust]

@RigidCollosion
Thank you for sharing your experience.

It's helpfull to make some decisions.

[mapes]

I fitted a brake bias control myself (took 1/2 hour); that made a huge difference to be able to dial-in better braking balance front to rear.

You don't, by any chance, have any photos/write up of how you did this do you?

[Steve Gibson]

I've driven all of the brake types. Alcons should be standard fit, in my opinion. With the acceleration of the 220s upwards to the new 350s, you really do want to drive around knowing that after a big road overtake you can slow the car quickly or on track, when hurtling toward a slow corner, you can do the same. Safety and confidence.

[Karl V]

I agree with Steve. My Nomad was NA initially with Alcons up front and Sports at the rear. When driving, I was always focussed on whether I could overtake safely.

When the SC was fitted, my thoughts immediately changed to whether I could brake safely after the overtake.

If you can accelerate quickly, you should be able to scrub the speed equally as quick. Don't want to tear past a normal and then hit the hedgerow.

Alcons all round for me now, heavily biased to the rear, but that's another thread...