Mk1 Technical / Upgrade Thread

[benyeats]

[quote="The JD"]
Ben, how do indentify the torsen diff? Theres a rover 600 T with box on ebay for £50
item280265356517

Were all the 600 T's given a Torsen diff?
[/quote]

Yes all 600Tis, some Tomcat turbos and some Vitesse Sports had them, the boxes tend to go for close to £100 but you could get a good inconvenience discount for taking the whole engine (even if he has 'lost the receipt).  The earlier 600s had a Type A diff which is a bit more agressive so probably better for the Atom but allegedly a bit more fragile than the later Type B which I have.

Ben

[The JD]

Hi Ben, didnt realise it was you!!

Glad you made it in the nik of time, I will post up some pics as I do my conversion.

JD

[benyeats]

[quote="The JD"]
Hi Ben, didnt realise it was you!!

Glad you made it in the nik of time, I will post up some pics as I do my conversion.

JD
[/quote]

Cool, did you win the gearbox on ebay yesterday ?

[The JD]

Missed it, but it didnt sell! emailed guy and will do buyit now
Quick question (advice) if I may, how do I split the box? .......

Obviously Its no longer attached to the engine, and Ive removed all the bolts.
The 2 parts are comming Apart but only by a few inches, I can see inside and the diff bearing has slipped out from 1 side ok.
I havent removed the gear change rod/shaft thingy.... nasty clevis pin, but that would only remove the "triangle cable-ball-links" and not the shaft itself.
Ive tried returning the 2 parts back together but meet resistance.

Ive not used a great deal of force and the box is (and was) in good shape.
the only bolt not removed is the v.large countersunk allen bolts on the end of the box (tappered end).

Any ideas? Cheers,

Jonathan

[benyeats]

[quote="The JD"]
Missed it, but it didnt sell! emailed guy and will do buyit now
Quick question (advice) if I may, how do I split the box? .......

Obviously Its no longer attached to the engine, and Ive removed all the bolts.
The 2 parts are comming Apart but only by a few inches, I can see inside and the diff bearing has slipped out from 1 side ok.
I havent removed the gear change rod/shaft thingy.... nasty clevis pin, but that would only remove the "triangle cable-ball-links" and not the shaft itself.
Ive tried returning the 2 parts back together but meet resistance.

Ive not used a great deal of force and the box is (and was) in good shape.
the only bolt not removed is the v.large countersunk allen bolts on the end of the box (tappered end).

Any ideas? Cheers,

Jonathan
[/quote]

Don't worry about removing the shift rod, hopefully you won't have to and can save the cost of a new seal !

At the top of the box you will see there is a large female allen shaped recess (15mm ?) which is attached to a round cover, this will take quite a lot of force to remove but has to be done.  Underneath this you will see the two ends of a circlip, prise this apart either with two screw drivers or some circlip pliers and the main gearbox shaft should drop away from the gearbox housing.

The other bolt you have to undo is the one which holds the reverse idler shaft in place, it is an 11mm (or 13mm) bolt on the side of the gearbox housing.  I suspect you have already undone this one hence can't get the two halves to slide back together as the reverse idler shaft will not be seated properly.

Once the circlip and reverse bolt are undone the two halves should come apart easily.  It should also be easy to reassemble, if the two halves are properly lined up there should be almost zero resistance.  Make sure you use sh1t loads (technical term) of gasket sealant as I didn't on my first go and the box subsequently leaked and had to be rebuilt again.

Other points are the gears are held onto one of the shafts by the housing so be careful they don't all fall off when you open the box, not a big deal but annoying.  Also worth using some vaseline to lube the bearings on the gear shafts, I found out this is kept in the baby care section of a supermarket after looking near the condoms for ages........

Ben

[The JD]

Well its a wee while but I will cut to the chase!

Stripped 140 VVC down to discover cracked valve guides, unmatched valves (suspect a rebuild after cambelt snap) so ditched for spares and went looking for a newer 160bhp MGF Trophy unit.... err or 160 Turbo MG TZ whichever came first. HURRAH picked up 30k 160vvc on ebay for £450 from metro-salvage in Bolton of all places. What a nice bunch of honest folks, even threw in the loom,ecu,box and subframe.

Delivered to my door for another £50 the next day!
Alas the Alarmbox  (matched to ECU) was unavailable

Removing MK1 engine isnt too bad, just remove all the bits and bobs I thought.... alas the NS top gearbox mount is... well... err... bugger it! Just cut one side off so I could swing the engine FS and remove (have to fix that later me thinks).

Also from Bolton (yes they're far more friendly than southern folks) a custom built (CR) gearbox, longer first (closer to 2nd) and shorter 5th (closer to 4th). Arbitrary Torsion slip diff, ummed and arrrd about Final Drive, theres a 3.9 and 4.2 available for the PG1 box; now that 5th was reduced suspected a longer final drive would be wiser to avoid topping out on the long straights.

Great! Given a weekend from her indoors to fit it all

Made a few changes. Ground off gearchange bell crank "sloppy" OEM balljoints and welded on m4 bolts, as gearchange cable has m4 threaded ends for rod ends... good easy mod! Also used later PG1 bell crank which is reversed so doesnt protrude gearbox casing out towards the rear of the chassis, looks neater and will make removal easier.

Offered up 42mm Jenvey TBs (nice!). Bunged inlet ports and ground off 2/3mm radius to match TBs.
Also drill out Jenvey manifold for air bubbles to escape cylinder. Bend Throttle arm 3mm as its too close to the other pairs arm.
New cam belt and tensioner to be on the safe side.
Gearbox and engine slotted together nicely, time to lift in.

Easy peasy! All in and ready to hook up. Drive Shafts needed a bash with 3x3 timber despite popping off easily... must be the newer heavy duty PG1 bearings being a tighter fit me thinks.

Exhaust manifold, had to elect for the spare from older 140vvc which has smaller flange to match (custom Atom) down pipe. Note to self [make new manifold someday]

Alternator/Clutch cylinder, etc all easy peasy.

WIRING. "My advice is if you maintain this lifestyle you wont reach 30" Thats what the Doc said.... err Im 35 so must have the right idea
CLEAN CLEAN CLEAN.
Start from a totally clean garage and bench. Acquire at least 3 Haynes manuals, Rover200, Freelander and later MGZR/T along with copies of MGF diagrams (haynes never did the MGF! really!!!).

Decided to go for an EMERALD ECU, already have an early one in K-Powered MG-Midget, easy to configure, it works and you get lots of racing goodies.

So, I have a Single Plug (MEMS1/2) Emerald ECU and a (later) Single Plug (MEMS3) Motorolla engine loom. Not an issue if you can get your head round the fact theres also a non-motorola MEMS3 with 2 plugs (red n black) and that this and previous MEMS (ie 1/2) used the same engine relay unit ctrling fuel/Ign/Inj etc.

Cautionary tale: Having spent 5 days with a volt meter (10yrs ago now) not understanding why the dismantled relay unit was apparently working in total reverse to what was required only to discover upon purchasing a new one that it was in fact the AirCon/ABS etc relay and not the engine one.....

Decided to ditch MEM3(v2) engine loom as Relay unit is inbuilt into the Motorola ECU which was defunct.

No worries had spare MEMS3v1 loom from other VVC engine. Simply use small jewellers screwdriver to remove 36 odd wires from the red and black connectors and insert them into the new single MEMS1/2 Emerald plug.

Couple of Gotchas. Wasted spark or not to waste. How many coils you have!!
A few of the sensor sendors have different connectors, swapped the senders over.
Bit of soldering where later engine config differs.

Car loom plugs straight on. As did the relay unit.

Cup of tea.... OK I lie, 2 weeks later!!

Switch on... wow, fuel pump runs, dashboard ign light on, but no cranking   Bloody Alarm CTRL unit at the front of the car also imobilieses without the ECU. Despite reading up and seeing secret wiring diagrams there was no definitive answer. But a clue lay in the engine relay diagram, an earth that wasnt being earthed, gotcha!

Phut/Phut/Bang - coughs fuel out of the trumpets. Bearing in mind Emerald came with a std Map for this engine, whats up? Did I get the cam belt timing out? Well theres the smell of fuel, so maybe ign timing.... not forgetting the changes to the loom to incorporate 2 independently firing coils, swapping the coil feeds over.. wehey! Vroom vroom

Didnt last long, wouldn't rev and becomes harder to start. Just cant figure out whats wrong. "have you run out of fuel" sais mate at work, well really how on earth, 1 new fuel pump and FSE later and I concede that 5L of fuel in a jacked up Atom dont get picked up!!!

Stay tuned for pics and what happens next.

[benyeats]

Excellent post JD, bought memories flooding back.  Hope to see the car at some point, especially the throttle body setup, how much clearance have you got between the trumpets and the exhaust ? pictures ?

Would also like pics of the gear linkage modification (could be relevant to all Atoms as the setup is the same)

I have found the driveshafts are a bit tricky to remove and need a whack to get back in, I have also fitted the uprated bearings to the PG1.

My next change will be a lightened flywheel which I have just bought, am going to try and do this without removing the engine by disassembling the gearbox whilst it is still mounted on the car, have taken the casing off in this way before so how hard can it be !!!  Probably a job for the Easter weekend.

Ben

[AtomMadStew]

have an experienced technician friend who knows his rover engines inside out. only too happy tp help if you need any. sounds like your well on the way.

[The JD]

Great to have Mk1 support!!
Theyre the shorter trumpets than what one should go for, if the pics work (below) I will upload some more showing the airbox and exhaust mods

[wisp]

Nice. 

I love the blue paint job. I also notice you have the same muffler. Mine has become a tad rattley inside.

[The JD]

Not you aswell! Dawsey keeps ripping about the blue box! .... Couler may be changing shortly as theres more to the box story yet to unfold, cant do it now as need to make coins Re the exhaust, I will be uploading exhaust mod pics  that moves it down and out more to make room for Airbox (10minute job), in addition the inclusion of rubber mounts to reduce vibrations. Personnaly I think the Mk1 exghaust is far better than the single exit later models. You will need to find a local engineering co who can TIG weld stainless, then cut open the box and repair/replace the perforated pipes (and/or) loose baffles, should be 2hrs work.. say £100 At the same time they can mod the mounts to allow rubber bobbins (www.robush.co.uk)

[benyeats]

damn it I want a blue gearbox now, that has just made my Easter job more time consuming.  Assume it is painted with caliper paint ?  Actually red would also look quite good...

The clearance between the trumpets and the manifold is actually a lot better than I thought it would be thanks to the mounting angle so that is encouraging.  I am hoping to switch to an Emerald ECU over the summer, as you say much more stuff to play with.

Ben

[wisp]

I think painting the whole engine-g/box could be a worthwhile option. Hmm... BRG engine or contrasting red, as Ben suggests.  :-\

Thanks for the tip on the exhaust. I thought it might be possible to open and repair.

[benyeats]

[quote="wisp"]
I think painting the whole engine-g/box could be a worthwhile option. Hmm... BRG engine or contrasting red, as Ben suggests.  :-\
[/quote]

Not sure on painting the whole engine, would be quite a bit of work.  My concern with painting the gearbox is getting the damn thing clean enough for the paint to work!

Need to find one of those acid dip type places I suppose.

Ben

[ross]

I can tell you that sticking your gearbox in your Mum's dishwasher doesn't work very well (well, it leaves it clean, but the gears are will be a bit 'crunchy')....discovered this with a mini gearbox a long time ago...