Mk1 Technical / Upgrade Thread

[benyeats]

So this evening I have learned how to strip down an Atom gearbox (think it is the same unit PG1 in both Honda and Rover Atoms the box being a shared design, of course an extra ratio on the Honda cars) and remove the diff.  Actually it was a lot easier than one might expect, I had been told the PG1 is a good one to start with and so it would seem.

The reason for this is I have two gear boxes in stock plus the one on my car.  We shall call the gearboxes A and B

A = Rover 620ti gearbox with Torsen LSD
B = Rover 200 1.8vvc coupe gearbox

Gearbox A has a bellhousing for the Rover T-series engine but the diff I want for the Atom.  Gearbox B has the correct bellhousing but wrong diff.  So plan is swap the diffs over so box A can be sold for a normal Rover 600 with the open diff from Box B.  Box B will be retained for my Atom but rebuilt with higher quality bearings which will improve longevity. 

Or I may end up using box C which is the one on my car as it is probably the lowest mileage box but put the diff from box A in and uprated bearings then move the open diff K series box on.

Think it all makes sense, Clare is very happy with the number of gearboxes I have at least I think that's what she said !

Ben

[AtomFun]

I guess you must store them in your corner of the bedroom then. What we men do to keep them happy, huh!

[benyeats]

Next stage has been removal of the engine from my car (gulp).  In true Haynes manual style the steps are as follows:

- Run engine a bit then drain all oil, coolant, gearbox oil (last one would be easy to forget)
- Remove all rear bodywork, coolant tank, air filter / pipe etc
- Remove engine wiring loom (possibly not necessary but not too arduous a job, Rob if you are reading this it seems the traction control sensors can be removed by undoing a couple of well hidden plugs).  Make extra sure you remove wiring to starter motor / alternator as these are probably hard wired to the car not the engine loom.
- Remove clutch linkage
- Remove gearshift linkage (a bit of a sod mainly due to me thinking a clip in fitting was a solid mount)
- Remove driveshafts / CV joint from gearbox (few suggested ways here, first involves removing driveshaft nuts from wheels, this broke my breaker bar so tried plan B.  Remove rear suspension pushrod and upper A arm, move suspension in a way that allows the driveshaft to be persuaded out with a lever)
- Remove exhaust, final removal of engine is easier if you take the whole system off, did not find this out until rather late in the game !
- Remove fuel lines to tank (2 lines)
- Remove coolant lines to radiator
- Start to loosen engine mounts, 1 bracket on gearbox, 1 near top of engine on driver's side, 1 at bottom.  Driver side top can be completely removed for now.
- Attach engine crane round bottom of engine and gearbox.
- LIFT

Actually the engine won't come out straight up, I know others have suggested complicated pulley systems but I found two prop forwards worked just as well, we ended up with one strap taking most of the weight of the engine and Nos 1 and 3 hand guiding / lifting the gearbox end up and out.

So current status is car has no engine in it.

Next step, remove gearbox and clutch from existing engine, rebuild gearbox with LSD, fit it all to new engine then to keep in Haynes style.......

....REFITTING IS REVERSE OF REMOVAL

Other stuff I noticed was I broke one of my rear light brackets (failure of bracket, think others have had this) right hand engine mount (upper) had also failed along the weld 70% of the way round.

Had expected to be a bit further along by now but have been very ill the last four days and the garage does not have a toilet !

Ben

[benyeats]

New engine is now fitted!!!!

As above reverse of removal except this time I had more muscle on hand, 2 props and a flanker this time.  Was relatively easy.

As I have rebuilt the gearbox I was panicing that it would not work, so far it seems to.

Now waiting for a wiring loom and I will be able to start it up and see what happens.

Ben

[benyeats]

Update......

New engine is installed, wiring loom fitted.  Pressed the start button to see if it would crank and blow me if it did not start within 0.00001 seconds of the button press, much better than my previous engine, suspect this is because it is running with the correct fuel mix rather than super rich. 

Topped up the oil (to be sure) coolant etc then went for a 100m drive up and down my street, gearbox works as well so all looking good.

Jobs still to do:

-gearbox has slight oil leak between bellhousing and diff housing, need to crack open and apply more sealant / gasket compound, should be easy and gearbox oil needs to come out anyway as it is only filled with 'test' oil.  Will also replace RHS driveshaft seal as I am not convinced it is perfect.

-speedometer set up on new loom is different so need to fabricate wiring to speedo / dash, easy job and much more in my comfort zone !

-Alternator warning light seems not to work, no idea why but again 'in the zone' so fixable

Hoping to have it all done for a longish trip this Friday as sort of a shakedown prior to the Alpine tour, but we shall see.

Ben

[wisp]

What is the final gearbox combination that you went with?

Box B with diff A or Box C with diff A?

[benyeats]

[quote="wisp"]
What is the final gearbox combination that you went with?

Box B with diff A or Box C with diff A?
[/quote]

I went with Box C (the one from my car) with the diff from Box A.  Also uprated the input shaft bearings and diff bearings (the latter are common failure points, I think this is what happened to John Lloyd's gearbox a few years ago)

I know I keep promising you pictures, one day soon.....

Ben

[benyeats]

Just been for a longer drive, only a few miles still but a better shakedown than before and got to give the car some welly.  Well so far I can really notice the difference, going away for a week now so no progress but all looking very good

Ben

[benyeats]

Time for a bit of a longer drive this evening, around 10 miles of empty country roads.  Could be that I have not driven the car for a while but first impressions are it is much quicker also the LSD seems to give much better traction out of bends, although feels a bit odd on bumpy bits.

Jobs still to do....

-Final removal of old wiring loom from front section of car
-Get speedo working
-Get reverse light working
-Fine tune gear linkage (may need a garage to do this)

and of course loads more driving to make sure the car is ready for the euro trip

Ben

[benyeats]

OK so the fine tuning of the gearbox above turned out to be take gearbox to bits and put bit you had put in upsidedown the right way but that is just a detail.  Shifts beautifully now

Ben

[The JD]

Hey Ben, good move!

Im doing the same with my Mk1 (nr5), theres loads of cheap VVC units around now that Rover has finally succumb to British Leylands legacy.

Have you got any more pictures of the build? "Gotcha" lists etc.

Re the thread heading VFM = Value for Money:

1) Remove and re-grease bell cranks. Cost=NOTHING! Time=30mins VFM='Inifinty'
2) Add dual rate Eibach springs to existing AVO shocks (yes theyre fractionally bigger/wider). Cost= £55/ea from Atom Time=2hrs VFM=100%

ToDo's - Fit VVC, HiSpec Brakes, Adjust Rear BodyWork to lift off, modify suspension arms to allow live adjustment.

[benyeats]

[quote="The JD"]
Hey Ben, good move!

Im doing the same with my Mk1 (nr5), theres loads of cheap VVC units around now that Rover has finally succumb to British Leylands legacy.

Have you got any more pictures of the build? "Gotcha" lists etc.

Re the thread heading VFM = Value for Money:

1) Remove and re-grease bell cranks. Cost=NOTHING! Time=30mins VFM='Inifinty'
2) Add dual rate Eibach springs to existing AVO shocks (yes theyre fractionally bigger/wider). Cost= £55/ea from Atom Time=2hrs VFM=100%

ToDo's - Fit VVC, HiSpec Brakes, Adjust Rear BodyWork to lift off, modify suspension arms to allow live adjustment.

[/quote]

I have a lot more pictures, simply have not been arsed to upload them !

The VVC unit will make a big difference in torque delivery and overall power.  The other useful upgrade is the Torsen diff from a 600 turbo, has made nice controlled donuts possible !

No particular gotchas to look out for other than the fact the VVC inlet manifold will not fit under the exising body work so a bit of dremmel action to remove the 1cm or so of excess material is needed.  Mounting points, exhaust etc all fit straight on.  You will also need to change the wiring loom (engine only) and ECU (probably) to support the VVC mech

Where are you based ?

Ben

[The JD]

Im in Mentmore near Aylesbury, in fact Ive already met up with "Dawsey" who has a Mk2 and lives 3miles away!! So we turn everyones heads in convoy. Where are you? I think you can email me as Im registered in the "members" bit.. or failing that just remove the word "S*AM" from my email here: jd@S*AMthejd.couk

Re the VVC, looking for one with all the gubbins, had the ECU problem 8 years ago when I built a K-Series MG Midget, didnt have the keyfob! Had to pay £600 for an Emerald (same price as the engine!).

I want to plum it all in as standard first, so shouldnt cost more than £500.00, then of course its Jenveys and solid cams etc... plus forged pistons and Emerald ecu wont leave much change from 3k I suspect.

Rover 600 TI, you mean its a PG1? How can I tell that its the slip diff variety (thinking ebay here).

JD

[benyeats]

[quote="The JD"]
Im in Mentmore near Aylesbury, in fact Ive already met up with "Dawsey" who has a Mk2 and lives 3miles away!! So we turn everyones heads in convoy. Where are you? I think you can email me as Im registered in the "members" bit.. or failing that just remove the word "S*AM" from my email here: jd@S*AMthejd.couk

Re the VVC, looking for one with all the gubbins, had the ECU problem 8 years ago when I built a K-Series MG Midget, didnt have the keyfob! Had to pay £600 for an Emerald (same price as the engine!).

I want to plum it all in as standard first, so shouldnt cost more than £500.00, then of course its Jenveys and solid cams etc... plus forged pistons and Emerald ecu wont leave much change from 3k I suspect.

Rover 600 TI, you mean its a PG1? How can I tell that its the slip diff variety (thinking ebay here).

JD
[/quote]

I am over near Cambridge

It is a PG1 but in a different bellhousing as it mates to the T series engine, swapping the diff is really quite easy as is working on the PG1, making sure you get the seals right on re-build of course (I speak with some experience of not following my own advice)

I reckon the job cost me around £500 plus lots of driveshaft seals from cocking up the gearbox.  Still have to sell the old engine / ECU / spare ECU I bought just in case etc so might end up costing me very little.

Not sure if I will go for solid cams etc as I think it will spoil the on road tractability of the car, on the other hand it would be an interesting way to kill some spare time !

Ben

[The JD]

Ben, how do indentify the torsen diff? Theres a rover 600 T with box on ebay for £50
item280265356517

Were all the 600 T's given a Torsen diff?