Lap Timers

[apollyon25]

If you have something like a Performance Box, can you look at the data between sessions?
i.e you go and log 15 laps then head back to the pits for a look at the data... then head back out...
Or is this a no-no too?

I can understand the in-car live telemetry, as this is a distraction, as well as giving you split and lap times which naturally you'd be pushing to beat...

[Driver]

I have a friend (software developer) that's working on developing/expanding his iPhone Speedster app somewhat. I've had a beta version on my iPhone for a few weeks, speedometer fully functioning and logging (data points) are fine. Working on adding GPS mapping to it right now. Already works in testing but it's the export function and formats that are the hold up, plus this is just a 'fun' app for him... Eventually I hope to get him to support all the functions of the bigger dogs in this little box, including tracking service history, fuel stops and mileage if one so desires. I doubt the GPS will have the resolution of the pro units but how much would you pay for a Lite version of something like the TraqMate or GTech?

[bolus]

what is the GPS recording rate?  The performance box does 10 times  a second.  I doubt the iphone will do that

[Driver]

I said lite version didn't I?   I'll find out next time we talk.

[NathanE]

[quote="apollyon25"]
If you have something like a Performance Box, can you look at the data between sessions?
i.e you go and log 15 laps then head back to the pits for a look at the data... then head back out...
Or is this a no-no too?

I can understand the in-car live telemetry, as this is a distraction, as well as giving you split and lap times which naturally you'd be pushing to beat...
[/quote]

No.  Only when you get home.  If you are seen with a laptop in the pit or paddock with anything other than digital photos on you will be messing things up for everyone. 

[apollyon25]

Chill Mr Toad.

I'm hardly going to be spoiling it for everyone as:
a) I live in New Zealand
b) We have different rules
c) I dont have any laptiming/logging/gps equipment
d) I have far more objectionable material on my laptop than laptimes...

Although I hardly see the difference between looking at the data at home and looking on the day in the pits.
I also know of no-one who has not got more than "anything other than digital photos" on their laptop.

Good lord man! WHAT IF YOUVE GOT SOME TRACK TELEMETRY DATA AS YOUR BACKGROUND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!


So my question is 'why not?'

[bolus]

I think he means if 'one' brings a laptop to a track and looks at data between racings it will break the no lap timing rule and cause more cracking down on others secretly recording times.

When I see rules like that I alwasy wonder how they were put in place.  I've seen videos of track days where people are passing on turns and no point passes.  So we in the US can records lap timing  all we want but the vast majority of track days I see are limited to passing zones or point by passing and then in the UK it is just opposite. 

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="bolus"]
I think he means if 'one' brings a laptop to a track and looks at data between racings it will break the no lap timing rule and cause more cracking down on others secretly recording times.

When I see rules like that I alwasy wonder how they were put in place.  I've seen videos of track days where people are passing on turns and no point passes.  So we in the US can records lap timing  all we want but the vast majority of track days I see are limited to passing zones or point by passing and then in the UK it is just opposite. 
[/quote]

No it isn't.

See various threads.

In the UK you can't time or pass in corners on track days.

Test days are completely different, but you need a race license.

[NathanE]

[quote="apollyon25"]
Chill Mr Toad.

I'm hardly going to be spoiling it for everyone as:
a) I live in New Zealand
b) We have different rules
c) I dont have any laptiming/logging/gps equipment
d) I have far more objectionable material on my laptop than laptimes...

Although I hardly see the difference between looking at the data at home and looking on the day in the pits.
I also know of no-one who has not got more than "anything other than digital photos" on their laptop.

Good lord man! WHAT IF YOUVE GOT SOME TRACK TELEMETRY DATA AS YOUR BACKGROUND?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!


So my question is 'why not?'
[/quote]

Jared,

I assumed that your question was following the rest of the tread and applied to UK track days.  The way it was phrased made no reference to NZ and so it sort of looked like you were asking a follow up question to John's initial query. 

What happens in the southern hemisphere is pretty irrelevant to most of us here, and I'm surprised that you thought that any of us would have a clue what the rules were down under. 

The reason why not - if indeed your follow up question relates to the previous content of the tread, and not the question "is it raining in Bogota today?" is as Bruce pointed out in an earlier thread.  TDOs get their public liability insurance on the basis that their events are social, not competitive.  If you make them competitive, even by competing against yourself, in theory you are breaking the rules, and if, God forbid, you were involved in an accident killing or injuring someone, and were found to be doing this, then I suspect that both you and the TDO would be wide open to a full negligence claim from the injured party for willfully putting everyone at risk by behaving in a way that was specifically prohibited. 

Unfortunately telling a Judge or injured party to "chill" in that situation would probably not be considered proper mitigation, so it is worth taking the point relatively seriously. 

For experienced drivers, a little competition or race overtaking is something they can live with as long as they are anticipating it.  For novices, and there are generally a few of these on any track day, that kind of competition can be seriously intimidating, and potentially dangerous, which is the main reason that timing and on track data analysis are so frowned upon. 

[John H]

I think that everyone has made relevant and significant contribution to this thread..........some of it was fookin hilarious in fact, but still..........for moi, the upshot is that I will buy a lap timer and get my ARDS and do test days. I agree that it is a shame that we can't time our laps on trackdays, but there are always loads of total arseholes who spoil your line/braking point/etc which kind of makes it pointless to try and do anything more than enjoy yourself safely.
Cheers for your contributions and for f*** sake................... "chill out".
heh

[apollyon25]

Right - so its for insurance and safety... cheers

From my point of view I have more to learn wrt lines, braking points etc so lap timers dont help me.
GPS position, gear, rev, throttle/brake pedal position, speed is of more use.

If youre skimming 10ths then yes I can understand the prohibition of lap timers... but I am far from consistent enough to gain anything useful from just a la[ time and I want to know mm-to-mm, split-to-split, lap-to-lap and session-to-session and day-to-day which are the best points for turn-in, braking, which gear, am I braking too hard/too much etc.

It just looks like another red-tape solution.
At least you have track day insurance... track = no insurance whatsoever here in NZ.

Hell, if I was convered by insurance on a track here - I'd gladly forego all telemetry - in favour of clocking up some miles on track!
It puts a different slant on the day at the track when, if you break it, you are walking home and heavily out of pocket!

[Alec]

[quote="apollyon25"]
Right - so its for insurance and safety... cheers

~~~~~~

Hell, if I was convered by insurance on a track here - I'd gladly forego all telemetry - in favour of clocking up some miles on track!
It puts a different slant on the day at the track when, if you break it, you are walking home and heavily out of pocket!


[/quote]

As far as I know, the TDO only has a public liability insurance which doesn't cover you or your car and you sign a waiver before you're allowed to participate indemnifying them.

If you want to insure for the damage to your car you have to arrange that yourself as it isn't usually included in your normal car insurance.

[MonsieurX]

So if the uk has a problem with lap timers, then the built-in timer of the KTM xbow LCD (which i just read in topgear magazine's xbow test) is going to be a safety problem for track days...

[John H]

[quote="MonsieurX"]
So if the uk has a problem with lap timers, then the built-in timer of the KTM xbow LCD (which i just read in topgear magazine's xbow test) is going to be a safety problem for track days...


[/quote]
good point!
what have they used out of curiosity?
A sundial perhaps?

[MonsieurX]

a ktm bike lcd...