Newbie with loads of Atom questions

[Cro]

Hey guys,

I've just sold my R35 GTR and on the hunt for something different to enjoy. An Atom was always something i'd love to get into and now it's back on the radar.

As with all the cars I buy I like to do the research first before jumping in, problem is there aren't many here in Northern Ireland that i'm aware of so bare with me while I ask questions of you guys

Budget is about 30-35k which from looking in the for sale ads puts me into Atom 2 / 3 territory probably not supercharged

I've had a search of the site but can't find any definitive buyers guides, are there any that i'm missing or is there a list of things to look out for when buying? I've seen mentioned about contacting the factory with the chassis number for their take on the car so i'll keep that in mind

The spec/option sheets seem quite varied so are there any 'must haves' for the cars?

I like to do most if not all of the work to my cars, servicing etc so what is the aftermarket support like for them? I see skunkwurx mentioned and their site looks decent for a lot of the bodywork/aero parts

Are there any major differences between the 2 & 3 to be aware of?

When did the dash2 start being used? I have to admit that it does make the car seem that bit more special but I guess not a deal breaker

Finally, any common faults or problems they suffer from?

Sorry for all the questions guys, I did use the search to try and find as much out as I can but that is the stuff that jumps out at me at the minute. Hopefully covid and travel eases up soon so it opens up options for going to see a few for sale

Thanks in advance!

[AlanP]

Get the 3 over the 2 if you can.
Alcons are mandatory.
Carbon seats are really nice.
SC if you can.
Top suspension.
No faults really. Bullet proof, thrash the mother every day kind of reliability.
Good luck, all personal opinions obviously.
A

[ooinaru]

Stainless steel fittings, LSD and baffled sump are also essential imo.

[stupot]

My no1 piece of advice would be to buy an Atom based on condition/history rather than mileage. Go for a 3 or 3.5 if you can.

Any options can be added but look for big ticket items like Alcon brakes all round with handbrake, LSD and adjustable suspension. Baffled sump recommend for track work. Look for stainless fittings which should be on most cars but were an option.

Dash 2 was introduced with 3.5 in mid 2012 but you may find a couple of late 3's with it along with the upgraded 3.5 chassis. NigelS has my old 3 which has both of these.

Very few issues if looked after and regularly maintained. Consumables beyond oil/filter are mainly suspension rod ends which can wear quickly if left dirty. Rear wheel bearings on 2's will wear quickly if heavily tracked but bigger bearings were added during the 3's lifecycle (2010) and 3.5. Coolant is every 4 years and can be a pain to bleed.

The exposed nature of the car means everything is on show so it is easy to assess the general condition to determine whether or not it's been looked after by previous owner(s).

Areas such as tub floor can wear under pedals if unprotected. Rear of chassis, rear suspension and rear mudguards are very susceptible to chips from stones flung up by the front tyres. PPF helps in these high impact areas.

Good luck with the search. Factory are really helpful with spec and if they have seen it.

Stu

[Cro]

Thanks guys, really good info!

[Fastlane]

I was in your position nearly 2 years ago with a very similar budget. There is a buyer's guide on Pistonheads https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/top ... &t=1655305 and on Evo https://www.evo.co.uk/ariel/atom/6247/a ... ying-guide

Based on my research and budget, I decided on a supercharged 3. I was looking at a tuned 996 turbo as an alternative and so really wanted the extra boost of the supercharger. Given that you are coming from a GTR I would suggest you will want the same.

As has been said, buy on condition/history. £35k should get you into a slightly higher mile (i.e. over 20k miles) supercharged 3 - the prices have hardened as a result of the renewed interest in the Atom 4 and the associated waiting list, but this means you will be unlikely to lose any money on depreciation. If you can wait until later in the Summer or even the Autumn, prices do tend to soften although for that reason there don't tend to be many cars for sale.

Cars with a full factory service history tend to command a premium and are easier to sell on as they are more of a known quantity. The factory will provide the history on a car if you ring them but obviously only up to when they last saw it. An annual/4500 mile factory service is £595 inc VAT. There are lots of jobs that you can do yourself and the factory will happily give you advice on how to do these if you ring them up. If you can get the current owner to get the factory to service the car before you buy it, then they will be able to give you a thorough overview of the car and spot any potential issues (like rod ends and wheel bearings which are not often obvious) I did this with mine.

Atoms are pretty damn reliable thanks to good quality components and great build quality, and unlike many other cars with similar performance, being based around a Honda engine, will start with no histrionics and are perfectly happy at 30mph or in traffic.

Weakpoints:
-Wheel bearings. As has been said, in 2010 they were uprated to larger Porsche bearings and the factory will upgrade them still, but you are talking c£600/corner. As the rear wheels are under more stress, the rear bearings seem to go more quickly, especially with track use, so some people just upgrade the rear hubs. Mine haven't been done but it only costs around £120/corner for the factory to replace the bearings when I take my car to them to be serviced each year. They are quite tricky to replace as the hubs have to come off and a special press has to be used to ensure you don't damage the hub - the factory showed me some hubs last year that had been wrecked by a local garage that had changed the bearings without the correct press. If you are not intending to take the car to the factory for servicing I would recommend upgrading the hubs or buying a that has had them done - but check with the factory that it has definitely got the later hubs.
- Rod ends. Again, as has been mentioned, these wear out and have to be replaced, but can and do last many thousands of miles if they are kept clean but NOT lubricated. Track use increases the wear rate and so you can upgrade the rods ends to race/competition versions which are about twice the price. The rod standard rod ends themselves are £40-£100 each and there are 20 of them.
- Rusty Wishbones/pushrods. The chassis and especially the wishbones and pushrods are completely exposed and get peppered by stones, especially if you run sticky track day tyres. All cars will have stone chips, especially on the suspension. Many cars have PPF on the more exposed parts, but this is only effective to a certain extent. It is pretty easy to rub down and repaint the wishbones and pushrods in situ using black Hammerite Smooth https://www.screwfix.com/p/hammerite-sm ... 50ml/44048. I did all of mine for about £20 and the colour is an exact match for the original.

There were/are lots of options available, most of which can still be fitted to an older car by the factory. In terms of must haves I would say:

Primarily for road use:
-Quaife limited slip diff
-Adjustable alloy Bilstein dampers, two piece sports spring kit
-Two piece spring kit
-Stainless fixings
-Aero deflectors
-Handbrake

Primarily for track use add in:
-Alcon brakes front and rear
-Brake bias adjuster
-Baffled sump

Lots of 3s have had various 3.5 upgrades too added over time, like the carbon fibre instrument surround, LED lights, 310 remap as well as the steering rack tweeks. These are worth seeking out.

There are lots of either desirable and expensive options, but most of these are focused on improving track times or aesthetics. Having said that, as Atoms don't really depreciate, if you do spend more, then you are unlikely to lose out if you decide to sell.

There are a couple of NI owners on here, so you may want to touch base with them too for advice on servicing.

Good luck with your search.

[Cro]

[mention]Fastlane[/mention] Super! thanks for that

[PhilTimo]

Can someone explain to an uneducated idiot (my friend!), why a baffled sump is so important?

Also, can anyone tell me the current price of the 4 yearly service? (The one my friend has his eye on has this due).

Thanks in advance

Phil

[hamtt]

The baffled is designed to help the oil pickup from the sump for the engine lubrication.

With a normal sump there's a danger on the track when going around a corner fast or momentum changes direction fast that temporarily the oil 'sloshes' to one side or one corner, and the oil pickup unit is left bare causing oil starvation for a moment.

The baffled sump is designed so this doesnt happen and the oil pickup unit always has oil available.

On the atom 3/3.5 I don't think this has ever been an issue as long as you check your oil levels before/during trackday. It's not a heavy enough car to cause too much of a momentum change.

Service - how longs a piece of string.

[PhilTimo]

Thanks!

[Fastlane]

The factory advise that you just keep your oil topped up to prevent oil starvation. Standard factory service for the 3 is £595, so probably similar. Get your friend to call the factory and they will confirm.

[atomiser]

The k20 engine is sensitive to regular maintenance, so regular oil changes are a must and any service history needs to reflect that.

As said, buy on condition. The mileage should be supported by SH and MOTs, however one or two i looked at had been 'adjusted' by various means, which was not reflected by their condition nor the factory description.

Though the servicing and consumables are relatively cheap, on my last AA2, we spend around £25k on maintenance over 15 years and 22.5k miles.

Some of this may seem overkill, in terms of replacement bodywork, petrol tanks, steering racks, rod ends every 6 years and renewing the suspension, however the car always felt like new. And rod ends do break. And bodywork does crack and vibrate through. And the on the various retunes, the car was still generating the same torque and power curves.

Final note is the handling and grip from AA2 to 3.5 are night and day different. We always struggled with AA2 understeer regardless (as per a few reviewers did at the time).

[John Scherrer]

I don’t think the weight or mass of the car itself affects the oil surge on cornering, braking, acceleration.

It’s more to do with the mass of the oil itself.

The Baffled Sump option is important if you ever or any future owner plans to track the car for the reason that Hamid has mentioned. If it doesn’t have it, it’s quite a bit of labour and ££ to post-fit and will mean that a lot of potential buyers in the future will pass and look elsewhere.

There’s a rumour that the engines come to the factory on a pallet with the baffled sump already fitted and they have to remove it if that box isn’t ticked.

[hamtt]

I always wondered why it's not made just like that as a standard, it's just a different design and wouldn't really cost any different to manufacture than a standard sump.

By mass of car I meant in the sense to contribute to the roll of of the car to tilt the sump.

[autobackup]

Hamtt

Its not body roll that'sloshes' the oil away from the pickup but the lateral Gforce (centrifugal or centrapetal force - take your pick) as the car corners!