Electric Vehicles

[Heywood-Yablowme]

C'mon Bruce.You know exactly what I mean. A good handling road car is just that. It can change direction without feeling like a two story bus.The brakes allow you to stop with full authority.The tires hold you to the road regardless of rain or shine.The engine will power you onto highways at meaningful merging speeds.
The Prius does NONE of those things. It is a kissy-huggy "I love the earth" car..for those who can afford one. "I'm green and clean"!!

I am NOT willing to compromise what I consider good handling characteristics from my road cars to be pollitically "correct". (a point of view I could not care any less about)

After a few years..once the (very expensive) batteries are down to 30% efficiency,they then become a VERY overweight, ill handling,s-l-o-wer than turtle sh1t road obstacles.

Would you like to purchase a few 4 year old Priuses,cheap? I can arrainge it...

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
C'mon Bruce.You know exactly what I mean. A good handling road car is just that. It can change direction without feeling like a two story bus.The brakes allow you to stop with authority.The tires hold you to the road regardless of rain or shine.The engine will power you onto highways at meaningful merging speeds.
[/quote]

I'm curious. Name any ordinary saloon that fulfills all your criteria, one that 'handles'...

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Jesus..you don't get out much,do you.  Let's see,how about a Ford Fusion? Maybe a Hyundai Sonata? Hell,even a Toyota Corolla is better than a Prius for decent road handling.

In all honesty,I can't name ONE car WORSE than a Prius for handling.  

That leaves a LOT of cars to choose from.. and even some trucks....

As much as I have tried to ...accept the Prius..it has given me NOTHING to like.  

Ugly,ill handling,underpowered,expensive transportation for people who need to feel they are doing something good for the Earth.  

[wisp]

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
      A recuperator..yea,right! They had turbines in the 50's..didn't work then..
[/quote]

You're probably referring to things like the Rover JET1 and STP Turbine Racer. They are not the same as they were turbine only driven.

A turbine when used in a series hybrid works well. Design Line have been making buses since 1985 and using turbines as the prime mover for a decade. A series hybrid is a powerful method of propulsion with considerable range. If was not a good system then it would not have been used in buses, trains and ships all these years. It should not be confused with a petrol hybrid that is no more than a petrol car that is electrically assisted.

IMO the search for cheaper cleaner motoring without sacrificing range or performance is not the 100% electric, nor the petrol hybrid. Lotus seem to be the only ones on the right track with their development Evora 414E Hybrid. They claim 408bhp, 590lb ft, 300-mile range and 0-60 in under 4 secs with a 3 cylinder 1200cc prime mover. It's a series hybrid or what's often referred to as a Range-Extended Electric Vehicle (REEV).

..and I'd imagine it handles like an Elise or the V6 ICE powered version.

[wisp]

The Evora 414E Hybrid is driven by two electric motors driving each of the rear wheels independently via single speed gear train. Electrical power is supplied from a lithium polymer battery pack and a 1.2 litre, three-cylinder engine with an integrated electrical generator.
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.

[mikesalt]

[quote="wisp"]
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.
[/quote]

The old Rover K-series could have done with that, no head-gasket to blow. Pain in the backside to access the valves I guess though.

[WorkingOnIt]

[quote="mikesalt"]
[quote="wisp"]
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.
[/quote]

The old Rover K-series could have done with that, no head-gasket to blow. Pain in the backside to access the valves I guess though.
[/quote]

Monoblocks won Le Mans 5 times from 1924 to 1930:
http://www.hemmings.com/hsx/stories/200 ... ure16.html

Around the world tours and other ambitious road trips seem to be a staple of Bentley owners clubs.
And of course there was this daily driver:

[atomathics]

[quote="wisp"]
The Evora 414E Hybrid is driven by two electric motors driving each of the rear wheels independently via single speed gear train. Electrical power is supplied from a lithium polymer battery pack and a 1.2 litre, three-cylinder engine with an integrated electrical generator.
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.
[/quote]

The photo of the orange Evora makes me think of some kind of 80s Nakamichi autosound poster.  Those look like some beefy Class A amps... just put in a glass of cabernet and a velvet armchair and the picture is complete!

[WorkingOnIt]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]

I'm curious. Name any ordinary saloon that fulfills all your criteria, one that 'handles'...
[/quote]

Can't speak for MMA's criteria, but I have found the following ordinary cars to be more fun than chore...

Nissan Altima and Chevy Malibu (since 2008)
pretty much any Mazda (zoom zoom)
Honda Civic, especially 'S' models

[Bruce Fielding]

If you want to know the History of Oil, and why it's well past its best, and therefore why EV's are absolutely critical to develop, see this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5741878159#

It's 45 minutes long, but every single second is worth watching, very funny - it's Rob Newman - and much of it came as a revelation to me when I first saw it some years ago.

Find out how German warships started the First World War, and how the Euro sparked the latest war in Iraq.

Stunning stuff.

[benyeats]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
If you want to know the History of Oil, and why it's well past its best, and therefore why EV's are absolutely critical to develop, see this:

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 5741878159#

It's 45 minutes long, but every single second is worth watching, very funny - it's Rob Newman - and much of it came as a revelation to me when I first saw it some years ago.

Find out how German warships started the First World War, and how the Euro sparked the latest war in Iraq.

Stunning stuff.
[/quote]

I recall we discussed this when it was first broadcast.  I agree the start is enlightening, then after about ten minutes I was thinking what Newman could do with is a good bath, then I went and did something else

[WorkingOnIt]

[quote="wisp"]
The Evora 414E Hybrid is driven by two electric motors driving each of the rear wheels independently via single speed gear train. Electrical power is supplied from a lithium polymer battery pack and a 1.2 litre, three-cylinder engine with an integrated electrical generator.
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.
[/quote]

"Driver involvement is enhanced by the incorporation of HALOsonic Internal and External Electronic Sound Synthesis technologies from Lotus and Harman International, ..."

Really, Lotus?

http://www.grouplotus.com/mediacentre_p ... s/view/502

"...which provide sound contouring within the cabin and improve pedestrian safety outside the vehicle. Integrated with the HALOsonic technology, the Evora 414E Hybrid also showcases a brand new technology from Lotus Engineering, a sports mode that simulates a 7 speed, paddle shift transmission that combines exceptional driver involvement for a hybrid sports car and optimised energy recuperation.

Vroom vroom noises and a fake shifter?
Are we 12 years old with playing cards stuck in our spokes?

http://throttleblips.dailyradar.com/vid ... generator/

[wisp]

[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
Vroom vroom noises and a fake shifter?
Are we 12 years old with playing cards stuck in our spokes?

[/quote]

Yes some of you are. Come on, own up to the fact. You know who you are. 

[atomathics]

[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
The Lotus Range Extender engine features an innovative aluminium monoblock construction where the cylinder block, head and exhaust manifold are all one casting.
[/quote]

So we finally get quiet cars and now the need to make them loud?  Should we put sound generators on bicycles and skateboarders, too?

If this system were to be installed in a Prius, it should have the V8 and V12 options deleted.

[wisp]

[quote="atomathics"]
So we finally get quiet cars and now the need to make them loud?  Should we put sound generators on bicycles and skateboarders, too?

[/quote]

Good question, after all is there any sense in simulating noise that drivers have gotten used to over the previous decades? When they got rid of the old bi-metal relays from under the dashboard that controlled turn signals should they have replaced it with something that simulated a tick-tick-tick noise?