F1 battle : FIA vs. FOTA

[fiestycolumbian]

Here is a statement released by the FIA:

http://www.planetf1.com/story/0,18954,3 ... 16,00.html

Although this is from the FIA's point of view, its a very intersting read.

I understand the need to reduce costs, but if techinical freedom is the DNA of F1, then a 50M budget cap is too small. I remember the teams complaining that to redesign the diffusers cost them 10-20M alone!

I also understand the teams frustration with the FIA's constant rule instability, rules enforcement, in season stewardship, etc. I think everyone can say the FIA cant govern F1 properly or effeciently.

WHat to do, each side as their own point of view, and either side is not close to any sort of compromise. It looks like either the FOTA teams will start their own championship, or they will cease to race all together. Either scenario will be a death sentence for F1's place as the pinnacle of motorsports. Must be avoided at all costs. Have they not learned anything from CART vs. IRL!!!

fiesty

[DFext37 Fielding]

If Mclaren get there car wrong again next year, i am just looking forward to Dani Patrick whipping them, and Manor + Campos racing beating them.

[jon b]

Thanks for that link fiesty. It does indeed make interesting Reading.

I think the opening paragraphs say it all, there seems to be a large degree of power,ego and desired control involved. It would seem that the head of fiatwants his own way and easily throws his toys out of the pram.  There us simply too much politics going on now with a dangerous mixture if the above.

I suspect there will now follow a tit-for-tat statement which again is only damaging.

There certainly is a real possibility of F1 ceasing to exist with whatever series that is left being too small and will fail quickly

Com'on Ernie get this sorted! 

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="jon b"]
Com'on Ernie get this sorted!   
[/quote]

Ernie who? 

I wouldn't mind this bickering quite so much if there weren't thousands of jobs - most of which are in the UK - reliant upon the outcome. They're being schoolboy stupid with people's lives and that's unacceptable from any industry.

There is one simple solution to this. One job has to go... bye bye Max.

[benyeats]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
Ernie who? 
[/quote]

The fastest milkman in the West of course, he is rumoured to be driving for US F1 next season

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
I wouldn't mind this bickering quite so much if there weren't thousands of jobs - most of which are in the UK - reliant upon the outcome. They're being schoolboy stupid with people's lives and that's unacceptable from any industry.
[/quote]

This is why I disagree with the cost cap and in particular the way in which it has been introduced.  In effect a company like McLaren or Renault or even some of the smaller teams will have to loose perhaps 60% of their headcount almost overnight.  This is wrong for several reasons:

i)  If they can currently afford that many employees then why not provide them with work
ii)  Logistically it is nearly impossible to downsize so quickly without fundamentally damaging your business plus the required restructuring will take more than the 6 month ish window this leaves them with
iii) Not the right time for people with highly specialist technical skills to find themselves on the dole q.

This effects the UK more than any other country as the majority of teams are based here, even the French Renault and the Austrian Red Bull Racing !

Ben

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="benyeats"]
This effects the UK more than any other country as the majority of teams are based here, even the French Renault and the Austrian Red Bull Racing !

[/quote]

Not to mention the 'Mercedes' engine builders...

The schadenfreude gained from hearing 'God Save the Queen' played when the 'French' or 'Austrian' team wins is well worth it, though...

[benyeats]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
[quote="benyeats"]
This effects the UK more than any other country as the majority of teams are based here, even the French Renault and the Austrian Red Bull Racing !

[/quote]

Not to mention the 'Mercedes' engine builders...

The schadenfreude gained from hearing 'God Save the Queen' played when the 'French' or 'Austrian' team wins is well worth it, though...
[/quote]

The engine builders have already shed 50 staff.  They should be ok as Costworth is just up the road who are Max's preferred supplier for engines in the proposed Happy Shopper F1 series.

The instance of God Save the Queen being played at the Chinese (?) GP this year was something of a cock up by the race organisers....

Ben

[jon b]

you know what I'm there this morning thinking it's Ernie Ecclestone - thought it sounded a bit wierd

[fiestycolumbian]

http://www.teamsassociation.org/press-r ... ss-release

Here is the text:

Silverstone, 18 June 2009 - Since the formation of FOTA last September the teams have worked together and sought to engage the FIA and commercial rights holder, to develop and improve the sport.

Unprecedented worldwide financial turmoil has inevitably placed great challenges before the F1 community.  FOTA is proud that it has achieved the most substantial measures to reduce costs in the history of our sport.   

In particular the manufacturer teams have provided assistance to the independent teams, a number of which would probably not be in the sport today without the FOTA initiatives.  The FOTA teams have further agreed upon a substantial voluntary cost reduction that provides a sustainable model for the future.

Following these efforts all the teams have confirmed to the FIA and the commercial rights holder that they are willing to commit until the end of 2012.   

The FIA and the commercial rights holder have campaigned to divide FOTA. 

The wishes of the majority of the teams are ignored. Furthermore, tens of millions of dollars have been withheld from many teams by the commercial rights holder, going back as far as 2006. Despite this and the uncompromising environment, FOTA has genuinely sought compromise.

It has become clear however, that the teams cannot continue to compromise on the fundamental values of the sport and have declined to alter their original conditional entries to the 2010 World Championship.

These teams therefore have no alternative other than to commence the preparation for a new Championship which reflects the values of its participants and partners.  This series will have transparent governance, one set of regulations, encourage more entrants and listen to the wishes of the fans, including offering lower prices for spectators worldwide,   partners and other important stakeholders.   

The major drivers, stars, brands, sponsors, promoters and companies historically associated with the highest level of motorsport will all feature in this new series.

I cant believe it!! NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!

fiesty

[dp35]

I agree this is scary, but I'm hoping for the best.  Its not too late for Max to give in and rescue F1 as we know it, because its now clear that FOTA will not.  I applaud FOTA for sticking together and standing up to Max. 

If this split happens, IMO it will not be just like the IndyCar split.  In that case CART took all the best teams & drivers, but IRL had the one race that mattered the most, and that's why the IRL ultimately won.  F1 doesn't have one defining race that the series is named after.  Monaco is the closest thing, but it won't work without Ferrari's, McLaren's, etc.  Perhaps now those teams will be racing at Indy again (ironically) and Canada too. 

Also, its pretty clear that the 2 people in control of F1 need to retire.  They're both old and won't be around much longer anyways.  They're also both greedy and more concerned with their own wallets and egos than anything else.  At this point Bernie & Max have 2 choices - give in to the team's demands, then eventually retire with relative dignity; or stick to their guns and go down with the ship. 

[jon b]

There we go - the public response. It is always funny how a different picture is painted. I agree, the perv has to go and I assume the FIA board could achieve this (i assume there is a board). I assume there is no way of pushing Ernie out but my guess if max gies Bernie will change or follow.

Can you imagine how annoying these meetings are - would do my head in - so in this respect I'm glad we have FOTA

[benyeats]

There is still a long time before 'new F1' has to make any real commitment, I still think they are bluffing.

However I hope they are not as there are loads of classic circuits that have been orphaned by Bernie's ever increasing financial demands, 'new F1' cars running round Silverstone, Hockenheim, Spa, Montreal, Indy sound good to me

Ben

[Bruce Fielding]

I assume they are bluffing. But it's a hell of a bluff if it is...

Annoyingly, I had a friend staying with me last week who spends lots and lots of time with John Howett, and apparently he's been on the phone a LOT recently, but she wasn't allowed to tell me anything. Bugger!

Three further things to consider:

CVC - they must be a bit upset...

BBC - they must be a bit upset...

Silverstone - they must be laughing their arses off.

[benyeats]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
I assume they are bluffing. But it's a hell of a bluff if it is...

Annoyingly, I had a friend staying with me last week who spends lots and lots of time with John Howett, and apparently he's been on the phone a LOT recently, but she wasn't allowed to tell me anything. Bugger!

Three further things to consider:

CVC - they must be a bit upset...

BBC - they must be a bit upset...

Silverstone - they must be laughing their arses off.

[/quote]

Seem to recall Bernie does not own CVC these days, rather some banks do so he may well end up as promoter of the new series / will not loose out too badly.

The BBC must have an early get out clause or something predicated on Ferrari being a competitor so may be able to switch.

Just hope the new F1 is not shown on Sky

Ben

[NathanE]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
CVC - they must be a bit upset...
[/quote]

Only a bit.  They have already had all their money back and made a reasonable profit on their investment.  This has the potential to significantly reduce the value of their ongoing stake, but even if the "commercial rights holder" goes into liquidation they will have done very nicely out of their investment.

[quote="benyeats"]
Seem to recall Bernie does not own CVC these days, rather some banks do so he may well end up as promoter of the new series / will not loose out too badly.
[/quote]

Bernie never owned CVC, it is an independent investment management business that invested alongside Bernie into F1A (or whatever it's called), the commercial rights holder.  Part/most of their investment came from buying out existing shareholders, primarily Bernie.