Mini E Pilot

[fiestycolumbian]

So I was invited to the BMW Mini E 1-year pioneer program back in January. Because of unforseen delays with the electrical infrastructure, I am only now going to recieve the car by the end of June.

(While I am the Lessee on the car, some things have changed within my familiy. My grandad, who is 82 years and strong, recently had a major health scare, and was hospitalized for a few weeks with a MI/stroke. He is at home resting and recuperating extremely well. He almost back to his normal self. He has been a big part of my life, and I consider him to be one of my best friends. It was very hard on me to see what he went through. Granted being a Medical resident, I see these things everyday, but went it happens to family, it obviously hits close to home.
My grandad is an absolute car connoisseur. He has experienced the automobile since its infancy back in the 30s and 40s. He has all kinds of fun stories and experiences from all over the world. He has experienced carb motors, current FI motors, modern diesels, etc.. He reads autoblog everyday religously!! He was absolutely thrilled when I was selected to be part of this Mini E pilot program. To that end, I have decided to allow my grandad to take over the E lease from me, and allow him to drive it for the year. He has given me a lot over my life, practically raised me, so giving him this automotive opportunity is the least I can do. I know for a fact he is excited, and given him a lot of motivation to recover stronger. )

Anyways, I will definitely post up pics and a review of the Electric Mini, once the car is delivered. They are installing the charging station and cables in my grandad's home in the next few weeks.

Any of the socal atomic buddies that want to drive the Mini E and see what all this fuss about electric power is, we can definitely meet at Cars and Coffee anytime, provided I can pry it from my grandad's hands  . Range permitting of course

fiesty

 

[WorkingOnIt]

I look forward to the impressions of a not-easy-to-impress car enthusiast.

Peter Trepp's blog after one week says:

"Virtually everyone Iâ??ve taken for a test drive comes back feeling like they just stepped off a roller coaster with that â??can we go again?â?� look on their face.
...
Once you are above 20 mph or so, however, the MINI E is responsive in ways that you donâ??t expect. Let me just say that I had some fun with an M3 the other day, and he didnâ??t have as much fun as I did."

He reports 90 to 100 miles on a charge with non-range-optimum driving habits.

[Driver]

I'd like to see how the range is affected after several hundred charge/discharge cycles...

[bolus]

the computer tech is there to keep the batteries optimally charged without loosing range.  My patient who does electric convernsions says the batteries will easily last 10 years if computer controlled cycling if done. 

[Driver]

We'll see. That's why I'm interested to see what it's like in a couple of years of real world actual use.

[WorkingOnIt]

Lithium Ion batteries have a calendar life as well as cycle life.

Articles I've seen usually predict a 20 to 30% drop in range after five years.  Of course I can't find a definitive recent cite at the moment.

Here's a Tesla Motors' executive blog entry on batteries from Nov 2006:
http://www.teslamotors.com/blog2/?p=39

"Li-ion cells lose capacity with time, even if they are just sitting on a shelf. They lose the most early in their life (year one) and then continue to lose capacity gradually thereafter."
...
"If, for example, you drive 10,000 miles per year at the end of five years you will have around 70 percent of the energy storage capacity of when new."

GM's Bob Lutz is quoted on the Chevy Volt in:
http://blogs.cars.com/kickingtires/2008 ... lt-ba.html

"They are all performing flawlessly. It's almost scary we are not seeing any problems with the batteries."
...
"We're being conservative on battery life. For our cost calculations we're assuming each car will need a replacement during the [10 year] warranty period."

Bottom line is, this is an unprecedented application for these batteries.  A lot of educated guesses being made.  Huge pleasant surprise?  huge disappointment?  or at the median prediction? - as Driver says, tune in after a couple years of Tesla ownership and other manufacturers' field trials.

[Driver]

It occurs to me that it'll absolutely KILL resale value if the 2nd owner knows he'll be replacing batteries soon because the range is 60% of when new (which isn't that great anyway).. Of course for now there'll be idiots that don't even think of this... We might see a time when a 8 year old electric car could be treated like a dinosaur powered one with 100K on the clock, 9 years old would be like 200K, etc... We'll have to see as the jury is still out. Maybe there'll be some more advancements in Batt technology. That's what I was thinking when I wrote the question about a few hundred charge/discharge cycles.

[WorkingOnIt]

Having shopped for a few used daily drivers, there seemed to be little difference in asking price between, say, those with documented timing belt service and those that were due.  Of course there will probably be more buyer awareness of battery replacement.

If battery replacement hasn't come down to no more than a small multiple of the cost of clutch or timing belt service in ten years, then it probably hasn't succeeded.

Here's Jay Leno's segment on the Mini E:
http://www.jaylenosgarage.com/video/vid ... id=1052621
[quote="Jay"]
"Trouble is, there's nothing you can do but drive it, I don't know how you hop this car up."
[/quote]

[WorkingOnIt]

No surprise, a bunch of Mini E blogs have popped up.

Here are 3 that use solar charging.

http://minie19.wordpress.com
http://www.genesisenergycorp.com/mini/
http://electricride.wordpress.com/

The first guy (Mini E 19) has his house completely solar powered.
He is also maintaining a blog roll of Mini E owners' blogs (currently 15) in the right column of his home page.

[maverick1]

[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
Lithium Ion batteries have a calendar life as well as cycle life.
[/quote]
I concur.
I've had my Palm Treo 650 for too many years to count, and I am now having trouble charging up by battery to full.
I think it's time for the iPhone.

[WorkingOnIt]

Mini E Field Test Highlights Roadblocks Facing Electric Cars
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/11/mini-e-field-test/
If you are in a house with a normal supply and you want to bring a 240-volt [charger], you have to have an agreement from the power utility," O'Donnell says. "New Jersey is the most difficult because there are so many local authorities." ...
What O'Donnell calls "the New Jersey problem" is compounded because "all the [charging system] components are [UL] certified, but they say the system isn't certified," he says.
"We are dealing with only three metropolitan areas of the United States," he says. "Think about when you start to build the national network and all those local codes"

BMW trying to figure out what to do next with its electric Mini
http://content.usatoday.com/communities ... ini-test/1

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
Mini E Field Test Highlights Roadblocks Facing Electric Cars
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/11/mini-e-field-test/
If you are in a house with a normal supply and you want to bring a 240-volt [charger], you have to have an agreement from the power utility," O'Donnell says. "New Jersey is the most difficult because there are so many local authorities." ...
What O'Donnell calls "the New Jersey problem" is compounded because "all the [charging system] components are [UL] certified, but they say the system isn't certified," he says.
"We are dealing with only three metropolitan areas of the United States," he says. "Think about when you start to build the national network and all those local codes"[/quote]

That quote doesn't seem to appear in the current version of the article, probably because it is bogus.

Homes have had 240V power available for many decades. I'll go out on a limb and say at least half a century. If you have an electric stove or clothes dryer, you have 240V power. And those appliances  typically have a circuit breaker of similar size to what the article says the Mini E charger needs - 30A to 40A. The only possible issue is that in urban and mixed-use environments, the power may be 120/208 instead of 120/240, as it is fed from 2 legs of a 3-phase supply (that's what I have here). But equipment has jumpers to configure it for 208/240, just like gas appliances convert from LP to natural gas.

Also, we don't exactly have a bazillion electric utilities - with only two, PSE&G and JCP&L, you cover most of the state. The rest have miniscule market share and are either utilities that have a large presence elsewhere (like Orange & Rockland) but only have a small NJ footprint, or are tiny local ones like Sussex Rural and Vineland Municipal. BTW, I think those 5 are actually the only ones in the state.

I'm also not sure what the article is getting at regarding the permit process - AFAIK the Mini E just wants a normal 240V receptacle like a clothes dryer or a welder. Yes, you need a permit in most areas for electrical work, but it is a simple one for a single receptacle.

Where the article says "He believes the widespread adoption of electric cars, which are expected to hit the market next year, will require upgrades across the grid.", this can be addressed in many areas by using off-peak metering, which is already in place for things like water heaters. The idea is to charge less for electricity during times when demand is low, to even out demand across the day and avoid building more power plants. This is mentioned later on in the article.

One of the members of the NJ BMW Chapter was approved for the Mini E and was rather disappointed, because the rated distance kept dropping before the car was delivered, to the point where his wife could no longer use it to commute to and from the school she teaches at, because there wasn't enough of a safety margin in the available distance on a charge. Plus, he had problems when BMW came out to install the special outlet because the "free install" only covered cases where the new garage outlet was within some distance of the main electric panel.

[Bruce Fielding]

We have 220/240 volts as standard in Europe and 30 amps is no big deal.

I wonder who this MINI is really aimed at?

[benyeats]

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
We have 220/240 volts as standard in Europe and 30 amps is no big deal.

I wonder who this MINI is really aimed at?
[/quote]

30 Amps is more than the sockets in any domestic garage I know of.  I would also be semi surprised if US 240V supplies for appliances are capable of supplying 30Amps but have not really had a look at any US wiring. 

I suspect the article is confusing 2-phase and 3-phase supplies.  In the UK at least a 3-phase supply would be necessary to supply 30A and charge your electric car in short order, this would require special installation by your electricity board. 

In the US as Terry hinted I think you are more likely to have a 3-phase supply to your house for 240V appliances using 2 of those phases, I also think quite a few European countries have 3-phases to each property (in the UK each home has a single phase, with adjacent properties on different phases on a cycle of 3! )

The grid problem will be solved with smart meters / appliances and better load management by utilities, perhaps even including the grid borrowing energy back from your car's battery at peak times.

Ben

[AlanP]

Ben,

I have a 32A supply at mine to run a pool heater, single phase, no big deal, commando socket.

A