F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
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dp35
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
I'm pretty sure that McLaren dropped the appeal because they thought that's what would be best for the sport. Apparently, they think their current appeal would be good for the sport, to hand the championship to their driver, after disqualifying 3 cars for having fuel that was 3 to 4 degrees too cool.
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356speedster
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="dp35"]
Ok I thought about it - Kimi won the most races, didn't finish 2 because the car broke, and still scored more points than Wonderboy or Alonso, despite the fact that their cars never failed. Kimi was the best driver in 2007, and he's the world champion.
If Hamilton fans want to cry about his team's poor tire decision in China, then what about Ferrari's poor tire decision in Japan? The difference is, Kimi survived his bad situation with a last to 3rd place drive in Japan, while Lewis destroyed his tires and drove the car into the sand, just after Kimi & Alonso had passed him.
There's also the issue of the season's final 2 races. With everything on the line, Kimi stayed cool, came from behind and won both, while Lewis melted under the pressure. You don't have to look much further than lap 1 of yesterday's race to see who stepped up and performed when it mattered the most, and who choked.
Lewis Hamilton just showed how difficult it is to win the F1 world championship as a rookie, and why its never been done. He is a fantastic driver and will have his championships, just not in 2007. Overall, this result is the best thing for the sport anyways - think about it...
[/quote]
DP - You hit the nail right on the head there and it's that kind of objectivity that been missing from the majority of the media reports (unless you live in Finland I guess!). Kimi was the more consistent driver and he was the one that kept his cool when the going got tough and his championship title. Yes he's dull when interviewed, but did what he's paid to do - win.
I'm very pleased that Alonso didn't get the title, his behaviour has been terrible. He's reminded me of some sort of pop diva this year, thinking he's bigger than the sport.
I just hope that '08 is free from all the cr4p that's blighted this season and we can have a straight fight for the title, on the track and not in the courts.
Hamilton has said he doesn't want to win the title in the courts, but McLaren haven't dropped their appeal...... c'mon Ron, do the right thing....
Ok I thought about it - Kimi won the most races, didn't finish 2 because the car broke, and still scored more points than Wonderboy or Alonso, despite the fact that their cars never failed. Kimi was the best driver in 2007, and he's the world champion.
If Hamilton fans want to cry about his team's poor tire decision in China, then what about Ferrari's poor tire decision in Japan? The difference is, Kimi survived his bad situation with a last to 3rd place drive in Japan, while Lewis destroyed his tires and drove the car into the sand, just after Kimi & Alonso had passed him.
There's also the issue of the season's final 2 races. With everything on the line, Kimi stayed cool, came from behind and won both, while Lewis melted under the pressure. You don't have to look much further than lap 1 of yesterday's race to see who stepped up and performed when it mattered the most, and who choked.
Lewis Hamilton just showed how difficult it is to win the F1 world championship as a rookie, and why its never been done. He is a fantastic driver and will have his championships, just not in 2007. Overall, this result is the best thing for the sport anyways - think about it...
[/quote]
DP - You hit the nail right on the head there and it's that kind of objectivity that been missing from the majority of the media reports (unless you live in Finland I guess!). Kimi was the more consistent driver and he was the one that kept his cool when the going got tough and his championship title. Yes he's dull when interviewed, but did what he's paid to do - win.
I'm very pleased that Alonso didn't get the title, his behaviour has been terrible. He's reminded me of some sort of pop diva this year, thinking he's bigger than the sport.
I just hope that '08 is free from all the cr4p that's blighted this season and we can have a straight fight for the title, on the track and not in the courts.
Hamilton has said he doesn't want to win the title in the courts, but McLaren haven't dropped their appeal...... c'mon Ron, do the right thing....
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jon b
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="dp35"]
[quote="jon b"]
Lewis should have won but regrettably was let down with some poor team decisions at the end of the season. Clearly the best driver on the F1 circuit - how can anyone see it any other way- think about it......
[/quote]
Ok I thought about it - Kimi won the most races, didn't finish 2 because the car broke, and still scored more points than Wonderboy or Alonso, despite the fact that their cars never failed. Kimi was the best driver in 2007, and he's the world champion.
If Hamilton fans want to cry about his team's poor tire decision in China, then what about Ferrari's poor tire decision in Japan? The difference is, Kimi survived his bad situation with a last to 3rd place drive in Japan, while Lewis destroyed his tires and drove the car into the sand, just after Kimi & Alonso had passed him.
There's also the issue of the season's final 2 races. With everything on the line, Kimi stayed cool, came from behind and won both, while Lewis melted under the pressure. You don't have to look much further than lap 1 of yesterday's race to see who stepped up and performed when it mattered the most, and who choked.
Lewis Hamilton just showed how difficult it is to win the F1 world championship as a rookie, and why its never been done. He is a fantastic driver and will have his championships, just not in 2007. Overall, this result is the best thing for the sport anyways - think about it...
[/quote]
DP- sorry but you are missing the point.
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
Re Sundays race - the Zombie had nothing to lose - a slim chance of winning the world champtionship. The only real chance of this happening was if something went wrong with Lewis's car .......... In reality, if you want to see one of the top drivers make mistakes - keep watching the Zombie over a few races
Oh - how many years has it taken him to win the world championship by the way?
[quote="jon b"]
Lewis should have won but regrettably was let down with some poor team decisions at the end of the season. Clearly the best driver on the F1 circuit - how can anyone see it any other way- think about it......
[/quote]
Ok I thought about it - Kimi won the most races, didn't finish 2 because the car broke, and still scored more points than Wonderboy or Alonso, despite the fact that their cars never failed. Kimi was the best driver in 2007, and he's the world champion.
If Hamilton fans want to cry about his team's poor tire decision in China, then what about Ferrari's poor tire decision in Japan? The difference is, Kimi survived his bad situation with a last to 3rd place drive in Japan, while Lewis destroyed his tires and drove the car into the sand, just after Kimi & Alonso had passed him.
There's also the issue of the season's final 2 races. With everything on the line, Kimi stayed cool, came from behind and won both, while Lewis melted under the pressure. You don't have to look much further than lap 1 of yesterday's race to see who stepped up and performed when it mattered the most, and who choked.
Lewis Hamilton just showed how difficult it is to win the F1 world championship as a rookie, and why its never been done. He is a fantastic driver and will have his championships, just not in 2007. Overall, this result is the best thing for the sport anyways - think about it...
[/quote]
DP- sorry but you are missing the point.
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
Re Sundays race - the Zombie had nothing to lose - a slim chance of winning the world champtionship. The only real chance of this happening was if something went wrong with Lewis's car .......... In reality, if you want to see one of the top drivers make mistakes - keep watching the Zombie over a few races
Oh - how many years has it taken him to win the world championship by the way?
Last edited by jon b on Tue Oct 23, 2007 9:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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356speedster
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="jon b"]
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
[/quote]
Jon - The better driver debat is always a difficult one to fully explore and reach conclusions on. Every driver is out there in different machinery. Even the same 2 team cars will be out there in different trim (engine life, areo, suspension, brakes, are all different from car to car), so it's very hard to say who actually is the best driver out there. the only way to tell for sure, is to get the whole lot of them in identical machinery and have them fight it out. I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
Is Lewis good? Hell yeah! Are his driving skills the absolute best out there? We'll never know, because there's no way of scientifically measuring them. He's certainly up there, but any declaration of best driver will be subjective and down to personal opinion based on your own views. In this area, no one can have the right / wrong answer.
Because of all the variables involved in racing, any season has to be approached with a strategy in mind. Every team / driver will have strengths and weaknesses and winning the championship will need as much safe play as balls out racing. Granted that doesn't always make for exciting racing, but it's the way of the current F1 world unfortunately.
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
[/quote]
Jon - The better driver debat is always a difficult one to fully explore and reach conclusions on. Every driver is out there in different machinery. Even the same 2 team cars will be out there in different trim (engine life, areo, suspension, brakes, are all different from car to car), so it's very hard to say who actually is the best driver out there. the only way to tell for sure, is to get the whole lot of them in identical machinery and have them fight it out. I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
Is Lewis good? Hell yeah! Are his driving skills the absolute best out there? We'll never know, because there's no way of scientifically measuring them. He's certainly up there, but any declaration of best driver will be subjective and down to personal opinion based on your own views. In this area, no one can have the right / wrong answer.
Because of all the variables involved in racing, any season has to be approached with a strategy in mind. Every team / driver will have strengths and weaknesses and winning the championship will need as much safe play as balls out racing. Granted that doesn't always make for exciting racing, but it's the way of the current F1 world unfortunately.
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jon b
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="356speedster"]
[quote="jon b"]
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
[/quote]
Is Lewis good? Hell yeah! Are his driving skills the absolute best out there? We'll never know, because there's no way of scientifically measuring them. He's certainly up there, but any declaration of best driver will be subjective and down to personal opinion based on your own views. In this area, no one can have the right / wrong answer.
Because of all the variables involved in racing, any season has to be approached with a strategy in mind. Every team / driver will have strengths and weaknesses and winning the championship will need as much safe play as balls out racing. Granted that doesn't always make for exciting racing, but it's the way of the current F1 world unfortunately.
[/quote]
We all have different opinions 356 - hell thats why we waste our times on this forum - some opinions are better qualified than others hence why i say ask the experts
In this vain, was Schumacher the best F1 driver for most of the last several years - i'd say so and so would a lot of experts. It just so happened that he was a genuis at building a team of expertise around him to get Ferrari to their current standing.
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy just admire true tallent when I see it - shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent......strange fact of life
[quote="jon b"]
Lewis is the better driver , ask the experts - the people that know they will tell you the same - frankly without LH, this year would have probably been as normal - a few highlights but little else. All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
[/quote]
Is Lewis good? Hell yeah! Are his driving skills the absolute best out there? We'll never know, because there's no way of scientifically measuring them. He's certainly up there, but any declaration of best driver will be subjective and down to personal opinion based on your own views. In this area, no one can have the right / wrong answer.
Because of all the variables involved in racing, any season has to be approached with a strategy in mind. Every team / driver will have strengths and weaknesses and winning the championship will need as much safe play as balls out racing. Granted that doesn't always make for exciting racing, but it's the way of the current F1 world unfortunately.
[/quote]
We all have different opinions 356 - hell thats why we waste our times on this forum - some opinions are better qualified than others hence why i say ask the experts
In this vain, was Schumacher the best F1 driver for most of the last several years - i'd say so and so would a lot of experts. It just so happened that he was a genuis at building a team of expertise around him to get Ferrari to their current standing.
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy just admire true tallent when I see it - shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent......strange fact of life
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DFext37 Fielding
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
a pretty POINTLESS season for MERCEDES...
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Bruce Fielding
- Posts: 16320
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
Mercedes always have three points
Ariel Atom Owners Club founder, based in Central London
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benyeats
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
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Dave Fellows
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
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356speedster
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="jon b"]
We all have different opinions 356 - hell thats why we waste our times on this forum - some opinions are better qualified than others hence why i say ask the experts
Of course.... but in all fairness, you did attack my opinion first off, making it seem like I wasn't allowed to have a viewpoint I assume we're OK to live & left live now!!
In this vain, was Schumacher the best F1 driver for most of the last several years - i'd say so and so would a lot of experts. It just so happened that he was a genuis at building a team of expertise around him to get Ferrari to their current standing.
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy just admire true tallent when I see it - shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent......strange fact of life :-\
I don't think anyone has attacked his (or any other driver's tallent), there has just been some interesting debate about why he didn't win and if it's good or not (for the sport). Maybe we need a dedicated thread...... "Kimi winning the F1 world championship is good for the sport - discuss for and against"
[/quote]
We all have different opinions 356 - hell thats why we waste our times on this forum - some opinions are better qualified than others hence why i say ask the experts
Of course.... but in all fairness, you did attack my opinion first off, making it seem like I wasn't allowed to have a viewpoint
I assume we're OK to live & left live now!!In this vain, was Schumacher the best F1 driver for most of the last several years - i'd say so and so would a lot of experts. It just so happened that he was a genuis at building a team of expertise around him to get Ferrari to their current standing.
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy just admire true tallent when I see it - shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent......strange fact of life :-\
I don't think anyone has attacked his (or any other driver's tallent), there has just been some interesting debate about why he didn't win and if it's good or not (for the sport). Maybe we need a dedicated thread...... "Kimi winning the F1 world championship is good for the sport - discuss for and against"
[/quote]
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benyeats
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="Dave Fellows"]
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
[/quote]
Me too, love the way in moving from France to Wembley ticket prices have doubled for worse seats
Ben
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
[/quote]
Me too, love the way in moving from France to Wembley ticket prices have doubled for worse seats
Ben
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Dave Fellows
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="Dave Fellows"]
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
[/quote]
Me too, love the way in moving from France to Wembley ticket prices have doubled for worse seats
Ben
[/quote]
Really? Bloody typical!
[quote="Dave Fellows"]
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="356speedster"]
I remember the Michael Schumacher organised charity kart races used to produce some unexpected winners, which must show that F1 doesn't necessarily demonstrate the drivers' tallents.
[/quote]
See also www.raceofchampions.com although one could argue that this is proof that in equal equipment the best driver will not necessarily win. I.E. is Heiki Kovelinen better than M. Schumacher, I don't really think so but he beat him in equal equipment one year. Would recommend going mind you and it is in Wembley this time
Ben
[/quote]
I'll be there, can't wait!
[/quote]
Me too, love the way in moving from France to Wembley ticket prices have doubled for worse seats
Ben
[/quote]
Really? Bloody typical!
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dp35
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="jon b"]
As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy... [/quote]
Yeah RIGHT! You are the very definition of a "Lewis fanboy". If I was British, I'd be just as ignorant as you are about this. Its ok to admit that you're a huge fan of your country's team & driver. Don't deny it, embrace it.
Its obvious that you've got your blinders on, and despite any facts, in your mind Lewis is the greatest. Like they say, "love is blind".
[quote="jon b"]
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. [/quote]
Really? What about the last 2 times they raced? Both times Hamilton started in front of Kimi, and both times Kimi won the race.
[quote="jon b"]
shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent...[/quote]
The only one attacking here's been you Jon, calling the other drivers names, etc. For example:
[quote="jon b"]
All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
Re Sundays race - the Zombie had nothing to lose - a slim chance of winning the world champtionship. The only real chance of this happening was if something went wrong with Lewis's car .......... In reality, if you want to see one of the top drivers make mistakes - keep watching the Zombie over a few races [/quote]
No one's taking anything away from Lewis Hamilton, he's a great driver and should win his share of championships. Just not in 2007.
As said before, I'm no Lewis fanboy... [/quote]
Yeah RIGHT! You are the very definition of a "Lewis fanboy". If I was British, I'd be just as ignorant as you are about this. Its ok to admit that you're a huge fan of your country's team & driver. Don't deny it, embrace it.
Its obvious that you've got your blinders on, and despite any facts, in your mind Lewis is the greatest. Like they say, "love is blind".
[quote="jon b"]
Has Kimi proved himself to be the very best driver - no - not in the schumacher era and head to head against Lewis in virtually identical performance cars - no. [/quote]
Really? What about the last 2 times they raced? Both times Hamilton started in front of Kimi, and both times Kimi won the race.
[quote="jon b"]
shame others seem to get off on attacking true tallent...[/quote]
The only one attacking here's been you Jon, calling the other drivers names, etc. For example:
[quote="jon b"]
All you have explained is how the Zombie won the championship - thats a whole different matter - just read the Alonso (aka The Snake) book on how to sit back and play the safe game to win a world championship to understand that
Re Sundays race - the Zombie had nothing to lose - a slim chance of winning the world champtionship. The only real chance of this happening was if something went wrong with Lewis's car .......... In reality, if you want to see one of the top drivers make mistakes - keep watching the Zombie over a few races [/quote]
No one's taking anything away from Lewis Hamilton, he's a great driver and should win his share of championships. Just not in 2007.
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DFext37 Fielding
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
if it is on december 11, 12 and 13, i can't go, Manics gigs...
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Bruce Fielding
- Posts: 16320
- Joined: Fri Aug 12, 2005 1:13 pm
- Location: London
- Contact:
Re: F1 - 2007 season - includes spoilers
[quote="Dext37 Fielding"]
if it is on december 11, 12 and 13, i can't go, Manics gigs...
[/quote]
Why don't you look it up, Dex?
if it is on december 11, 12 and 13, i can't go, Manics gigs...
[/quote]
Why don't you look it up, Dex?
Ariel Atom Owners Club founder, based in Central London
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