So,move. Or, fight the laws. Not too many choices.
TMI is doing what they have to legally,in the position they are in.I suppose it could be worded differently.
Maybe they never figure the Atom to grow beyond being just a track toy?
conditions of sale
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bolus
Re: conditions of sale
I doubt they legally have to put it up on the site. When people call you tell them the truth, I dont have a problem with that, just dont put it up on the site in plain view
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Heywood-Yablowme
Re: conditions of sale
I will also send an email asking them to possibly reword/remove the statement. Mostly playing devils advocate, as I agree,it looks bad.
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Wmcmanus
Re: conditions of sale
[quote="fiestycolumbian"]
Every time I get pulled over, I honestly feel Ive won the lotto if my car doesnt get impounded. Thats how bad it is out here. Im going to throw up again just thinking about it.
fiesty
[/quote]
When I was in California in the summer of '07 after picking up my Atom from Brammo, I got pulled over and read the riot act from a couple of cops in Torrance. They were talking about bumpers and wind shields and wipers and impounding the car. I just showed them my Florida registration papers and reminded them (nicely) about reciprocity. They then told me that I should put the Atom back in my trailer and not take it out again until I was out of California.
I mentioned that Jay Leno and dozens of others have Atoms registered in California under SB100, but they didn't seem too impressed. They just kept saying that was impossible. Some of these guys are complete block heads and don't want to ever get confused with new facts that change their preconceived notions or in any way question their authority or knowledge of "the law" (such that there could ever be something so neatly packaged that they would understand it). California is scary place, that's for sure. I feel for you guys.
Every time I get pulled over, I honestly feel Ive won the lotto if my car doesnt get impounded. Thats how bad it is out here. Im going to throw up again just thinking about it.
fiesty
[/quote]
When I was in California in the summer of '07 after picking up my Atom from Brammo, I got pulled over and read the riot act from a couple of cops in Torrance. They were talking about bumpers and wind shields and wipers and impounding the car. I just showed them my Florida registration papers and reminded them (nicely) about reciprocity. They then told me that I should put the Atom back in my trailer and not take it out again until I was out of California.
I mentioned that Jay Leno and dozens of others have Atoms registered in California under SB100, but they didn't seem too impressed. They just kept saying that was impossible. Some of these guys are complete block heads and don't want to ever get confused with new facts that change their preconceived notions or in any way question their authority or knowledge of "the law" (such that there could ever be something so neatly packaged that they would understand it). California is scary place, that's for sure. I feel for you guys.
Last edited by Wmcmanus on Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
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CalScot
Re: conditions of sale
Well it's not really so scary Wayne. At least we have a mechanism where we can register the vehicle. This is better than some other States where you just can't.
No doubt the CHP can be tough due to ignorance at times but that's life. I had a run in with what has to be one of the worst CHP offices in CA on this subject. One where they have multiple investigations into scams to register golf carts and old "hot rods" under the specially constructed vehicle" provisions of the CA VC. Fortunatley for me, I have one of the best Attorneys in California, a business to pay for him and a friend who happens to be a legal ally of the highest order. I feel quite comfortable about the defensibility of my particular Atom since it truly complies as a kit car having been imported into the US in pieces and built here by the original owner from parts.
However, it would be no fun if I was the only one to have one here and all my friends lost thiers because TMI claim to be a manufacturer. In reality, they assemble the car. It's pretty easy to position yourself on a website to fend off a direct frontal attack by the CHP by simply clarifying that you "custom assemble" the Atom from parts sourced worldwide to a customers specification. The customer selects various engine choices and supplies them to TMI for installation into the kit. From an outsider looking in, you don not need to know that the only engine that fits is a Honda. You also dont need to know that you can only buy the engine from another "division/company" of TMI. It's simple, its easy to do and it's legal.
So much talk of liability and what you have to say. It sure is a crazy place when it comes to litigation but all you need is a brain and it's fairly easy to navigate. Just like Bolus said, "say nothing". It's better than putting the foot in the mouth and screwing it up for the biggest State in the US!
This place reminds me of an old saying. "in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king!" No wonder an idiot like me can make a buck here
!!!!
No doubt the CHP can be tough due to ignorance at times but that's life. I had a run in with what has to be one of the worst CHP offices in CA on this subject. One where they have multiple investigations into scams to register golf carts and old "hot rods" under the specially constructed vehicle" provisions of the CA VC. Fortunatley for me, I have one of the best Attorneys in California, a business to pay for him and a friend who happens to be a legal ally of the highest order. I feel quite comfortable about the defensibility of my particular Atom since it truly complies as a kit car having been imported into the US in pieces and built here by the original owner from parts.
However, it would be no fun if I was the only one to have one here and all my friends lost thiers because TMI claim to be a manufacturer. In reality, they assemble the car. It's pretty easy to position yourself on a website to fend off a direct frontal attack by the CHP by simply clarifying that you "custom assemble" the Atom from parts sourced worldwide to a customers specification. The customer selects various engine choices and supplies them to TMI for installation into the kit. From an outsider looking in, you don not need to know that the only engine that fits is a Honda. You also dont need to know that you can only buy the engine from another "division/company" of TMI. It's simple, its easy to do and it's legal.
So much talk of liability and what you have to say. It sure is a crazy place when it comes to litigation but all you need is a brain and it's fairly easy to navigate. Just like Bolus said, "say nothing". It's better than putting the foot in the mouth and screwing it up for the biggest State in the US!
This place reminds me of an old saying. "in the land of the blind, the one eyed man is king!" No wonder an idiot like me can make a buck here
!!!!-
silver
Re: conditions of sale
[quote="CalScot"]
the biggest State in the US!
[/quote]
huh...Alaska?
the biggest State in the US!
[/quote]
huh...Alaska?
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CalScot
Re: conditions of sale
[quote="silver"]
[quote="CalScot"]
the biggest State in the US!
[/quote]
huh...Alaska?
[/quote]
Biggest car market!
[quote="CalScot"]
the biggest State in the US!
[/quote]
huh...Alaska?
[/quote]
Biggest car market!
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Wmcmanus
Re: conditions of sale
You make excellent points, Pete. I agree with pretty much everything you've said. As Bruce pointed out on the first page of this thread, it would seem to be a pretty matter to simply approach the topic with more tact.
Given that they haven't done that, it makes one wonder whether:
a) the folks at TMI simply lack the requisite tact to word their disclosures appropriately, or
b) they don't really care too much about what becomes of a rather significant portion of their potential target market - i.e., those of us who would like to have a road registered Atom, or
c) there is much more to it all than meets the naked eye, and thus they are doing their very best to protect the only market that they feel they can compete in - i.e., track use only - given whatever pressures they're facing that we're not fully aware of. The only other possibility is that they're received some pretty bad legal advice and they're acting out of fear.
My guess would be c), so I'll withhold my final judgment unless/until I'm full apprised of the factual situation and can fully see the matter from their perspective. From everything else I've seen from TMI, it would appear that they're a group of rather bright, ambitious, and sensible businessman. So something else has to be coming into play here.
Given that they haven't done that, it makes one wonder whether:
a) the folks at TMI simply lack the requisite tact to word their disclosures appropriately, or
b) they don't really care too much about what becomes of a rather significant portion of their potential target market - i.e., those of us who would like to have a road registered Atom, or
c) there is much more to it all than meets the naked eye, and thus they are doing their very best to protect the only market that they feel they can compete in - i.e., track use only - given whatever pressures they're facing that we're not fully aware of. The only other possibility is that they're received some pretty bad legal advice and they're acting out of fear.
My guess would be c), so I'll withhold my final judgment unless/until I'm full apprised of the factual situation and can fully see the matter from their perspective. From everything else I've seen from TMI, it would appear that they're a group of rather bright, ambitious, and sensible businessman. So something else has to be coming into play here.
Last edited by Wmcmanus on Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:07 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Driver
Re: conditions of sale
Give them a chance... It's only been just discussed. I would be very surprised if we do not hear bac from tmi sometime in the next day or so.
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Wmcmanus
Re: conditions of sale
[quote="Driver"]
Give them a chance... It's only been just discussed. I would be very surprised if we do not hear bac from tmi sometime in the next day or so.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I was getting at in my post immediately above yours.
Give them a chance... It's only been just discussed. I would be very surprised if we do not hear bac from tmi sometime in the next day or so.
[/quote]
That's exactly what I was getting at in my post immediately above yours.
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wisp
Re: conditions of sale
I agree the TMI T&C could be worded better.
Despite that it really sounds like the US needs a low volume manufacturer lobby group. Don't lobby groups play a big part in US Law decision making?
Before anyone says SEMA they look to be more about equipment than complete vehicles.
Our LVVTA (Low Volume Vehicle Transport Association) is made up of 10 member groups. New Zealand Hot Rod Association, Sports Car Club of New Zealand, N Z Motor Caravan Association, The Vintage Car Club of New Zealand, Kiwi Trikers Social Club, MotorSport New Zealand, N Z Four Wheel Drive Association, Constructors' Car Club, Vehicle Association of New Zealand for People with Disabilities and Component Car Manufacturers Association of N Z.
None of them are overly large organisations, but combined its enough to influence government law making.
Despite that it really sounds like the US needs a low volume manufacturer lobby group. Don't lobby groups play a big part in US Law decision making?
Before anyone says SEMA they look to be more about equipment than complete vehicles.
Our LVVTA (Low Volume Vehicle Transport Association) is made up of 10 member groups. New Zealand Hot Rod Association, Sports Car Club of New Zealand, N Z Motor Caravan Association, The Vintage Car Club of New Zealand, Kiwi Trikers Social Club, MotorSport New Zealand, N Z Four Wheel Drive Association, Constructors' Car Club, Vehicle Association of New Zealand for People with Disabilities and Component Car Manufacturers Association of N Z.
None of them are overly large organisations, but combined its enough to influence government law making.
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