conditions of sale

[Alec]

Didn't Brammo participate in lobbying for some federal specialty vehicle legislation awhile back?  With the current concern for small business stimulus it may be a better time to pursue it.

Not helpful in the next couple months, but perhaps the only long term solution.  I've gotta think with all their investment that TMI is investigating all possibilities.

They had it written into one of the Bills in Oregon as a 'Racing Activity Vehicle' which limits it's use . . . .

obviously a different state but we went through something worse in Oregon last year where the attorney general said all Atoms were illegal and started pulling plates.  Then we got a law passed just for Atoms and now everything is back to hunky dory. 

I understood that only a few of the original owners had their Atoms registered as Kit Cars in Oregon and so were allowed on the road like other 'Normal' cars, whereas Brammo agreed to the law describing the Atom as a 'Racing Activity Vehicle' which means that they can only have a very limited use.

SECTION 3b.
(1) A person commits the offense of violation of registration limits on a racing activity vehicle if a vehicle is permanently registered under section 3a of this 2007 Act and the person uses the vehicle other than for:
  (a) Exhibitions, parades or club activities;
  (b) Driving the vehicle from the person¢s home to a race track that is within a 90-mile radius of the person¢s home; or
  (c) Test driving the vehicle for maintenance or repair purposes within a 30-mile radius of where the vehicle is maintained or repaired.
(2) The offense described in this section, violation of registration limits on a racing activity vehicle, is a Class B traffic violation.

SECTION 3c.
(1) A person commits the offense of unlawfully operating a racing activity vehicle on a highway if the person operates a racing activity vehicle on a highway that has a speed limit or posted speed that is greater than 55 miles per hour.
(2) The offense described in this section, unlawfully operating a racing activity vehicle on a highway, is a Class B traffic violation.

This is why TMI has to keep away from describing the Atom in relation to 'Racing' so other States don't go down the same route.

It would seem that TMI heeded my last statement (which I've highlighted for clarity) and replaced the bit about 'Racing' with a phrase about 'off-road (i.e., "track day") vehicle only'.

I'm not sure that's what I meant. 

[Heywood-Yablowme]

A new classification of vehicle is needed. The Atom really is a 4 wheel  "safe" motorcycle.

How about Motorquad.

Hell,some motorcycles have air bags,abs brakes,criuse control,and weigh in over a thousand pounds

To think,all that on only two wheels. Think how much more safe that bike would be with two more wheels.

The Motorquad.

Limit the seating to two people,and the weight to 1500lbs.

Yea,right...maybe in a world where people cared enough to  live and let live...

[fiestycolumbian]

[quote="CalScot"]
There need be no mention of any of this on a website. All needed disclosures and disclaimers can be covered "offline" as condition of acceptance of a deposit to purchase. Understandably, the website needs to inform the public of certain things, but lets be real here. Anybody who is actually going to buy an Atom is going to be a genuine car nut who will do far more research and find out all he needs to know from direct discussions and disclosures with TMI.
This website should be specifically focused on assisting the acceptance of the Atom across as many States as possible. Purporting it to be a "manufactured" Automobile fuc*'s it up for California registration purposes. No if's about it! In order to be a "specially constructed vehicle", it has to be made from a kit or a collection of parts. This site FU*CK"S that up!! Sorry to be crude here but this is a major problem for anybody in California wanting to register an Atom. It also put's at risk all who have registered.
It's no exaggeration to say this puts CA Atoms at risk!
Homer Simpson is alive and well in VA
[/quote]
Please dont speak of a doomsday scenario!! I shudder to think how bureaucracy and government can take our registrations away from us.

I am really upset with this discalaimer being on every page of this website. Its a link begging to be clicked by any law enforcement agency. 

fiesty

[dford]

Didn't Brammo participate in lobbying for some federal specialty vehicle legislation awhile back?  With the current concern for small business stimulus it may be a better time to pursue it.

Not helpful in the next couple months, but perhaps the only long term solution.  I've gotta think with all their investment that TMI is investigating all possibilities.

They had it written into one of the Bills in Oregon as a 'Racing Activity Vehicle' which limits it's use . . . .

obviously a different state but we went through something worse in Oregon last year where the attorney general said all Atoms were illegal and started pulling plates.  Then we got a law passed just for Atoms and now everything is back to hunky dory. 

I understood that only a few of the original owners had their Atoms registered as Kit Cars in Oregon and so were allowed on the road like other 'Normal' cars, whereas Brammo agreed to the law describing the Atom as a 'Racing Activity Vehicle' which means that they can only have a very limited use.

SECTION 3b.
(1) A person commits the offense of violation of registration limits on a racing activity vehicle if a vehicle is permanently registered under section 3a of this 2007 Act and the person uses the vehicle other than for:
  (a) Exhibitions, parades or club activities;
  (b) Driving the vehicle from the person¢s home to a race track that is within a 90-mile radius of the person¢s home; or
  (c) Test driving the vehicle for maintenance or repair purposes within a 30-mile radius of where the vehicle is maintained or repaired.
(2) The offense described in this section, violation of registration limits on a racing activity vehicle, is a Class B traffic violation.

SECTION 3c.
(1) A person commits the offense of unlawfully operating a racing activity vehicle on a highway if the person operates a racing activity vehicle on a highway that has a speed limit or posted speed that is greater than 55 miles per hour.
(2) The offense described in this section, unlawfully operating a racing activity vehicle on a highway, is a Class B traffic violation.

This is why TMI has to keep away from describing the Atom in relation to 'Racing' so other States don't go down the same route.

It would seem that TMI heeded my last statement (which I've highlighted for clarity) and replaced the bit about 'Racing' with a phrase about 'off-road (i.e., "track day") vehicle only'.

I'm not sure that's what I meant. 

You left out the part of the Oregon law that says an Atom with "assembled" on the MCO cannot be registered under that law. As I found out the hard way...Oregon is pretty, though.

[Caroline]

I just wrote to TMI to voice my concerns and I would urge everyone else to do the same. It's totally stupid to put this info on the web site, the T&Cs belong on the contract of sale with the buyers not in full view of the DMV and the CHP. Aghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

[bolus]

[quote="dford"]

You left out the part of the Oregon law that says an Atom with "assembled" on the MCO cannot be registered under that law. As I found out the hard way...Oregon is pretty, though.
[/quote]

It is frustrating because it is a dumb law in the first place (cant drive on highways??) then it specifically says it only works for the make "Ariel Atom" right in the instructions to the DMV.  But then my car is no longer an Atom because I registered it as an assmebled vehicle.  I cant change the title of course because that is unheard of.  "No one has ever changed their title" is what I was told. 

Just makes me want to smash someones face. 


But  F them,  cause darth just passed emissions so I'm going to go down to salem and burn doughnuts into the capital lawn after I pass

[DarthChicken]

I don't own an ariel atom.  I own an assembled vehicle.  Its what my registration says, and if anybody asks, I bought the engine sepereate from the rest of the car, and put it together myself.  Don't believe that I build it myself?  Prove it. 

[bolus]

well that's true.  My car is about 50% original anyway. 

[CalScot]

[quote="fiestycolumbian"]
[quote="CalScot"]
There need be no mention of any of this on a website. All needed disclosures and disclaimers can be covered "offline" as condition of acceptance of a deposit to purchase. Understandably, the website needs to inform the public of certain things, but lets be real here. Anybody who is actually going to buy an Atom is going to be a genuine car nut who will do far more research and find out all he needs to know from direct discussions and disclosures with TMI.
This website should be specifically focused on assisting the acceptance of the Atom across as many States as possible. Purporting it to be a "manufactured" Automobile fuc*'s it up for California registration purposes. No if's about it! In order to be a "specially constructed vehicle", it has to be made from a kit or a collection of parts. This site FU*CK"S that up!! Sorry to be crude here but this is a major problem for anybody in California wanting to register an Atom. It also put's at risk all who have registered.
It's no exaggeration to say this puts CA Atoms at risk!
Homer Simpson is alive and well in VA
[/quote]
Please dont speak of a doomsday scenario!! I shudder to think how bureaucracy and government can take our registrations away from us.

I am really upset with this discalaimer being on every page of this website. Its a link begging to be clicked by any law enforcement agency. 

fiesty
[/quote]

The bureaucracy and government can't take our registrations away from us if the cars are in compliance with the law. (unless of course they change the law!)

TMI are by way of the website, claiming to be manufacturing the car. As you know, this means it's not a "specially constructed vehicle" by CA VC definition. Which means you can't get it Road Legal....PERIOD! Trying to get it registered in CA by claiming it is in fact a "specially constructed vehicle" would conflict with the TMI position of being a manufacturer of the Atom. It is not inconceivable that your application could be considered a fraudulent document and you could personally be subject to being charged with fraud. It is critical for any CA prospective owner that TMI is on the same page regarding the Atom's Specially Constructed Vehicle" status. TMI's webiste terminology and position is in direct opposition. It cleary advertises they manufacture and supply the vehicle complete.

Now you know what a friend of mine does for his profession and you know I got some good legal advice behind my fight with the Local CHP on this very issue. I can say with almost certainty, this is a deal killer in every sense!

TMI needs to change the pitch or face wrecking future CA Atom sales and potentially affect all existing ones!

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Um.......

"The bureaucracy and government can't take our registrations away from us if the cars are in compliance with the law. (unless of course they change the law!)"

They are not your registrations,and they can certainly void them....

..........if allowed to....

How about promoting the Atom for what it is? 

An eco friendly,human hand built,with a minimal carbon footprint,very fuel efficient means of safe,basic transportation needs for up to two individuals.


Racecar? Hardly!!

It really is all about promotion.

Where did that electric Atom dissappear to? Let's get that baby out there and show them how GREEN we can be...

I'll bet my Atom gets TWICE the mileage of most the cars I pass.

Now,THAT is efficiency!

[CalScot]

[quote="Curator"]
Um.......

"The bureaucracy and government can't take our registrations away from us if the cars are in compliance with the law. (unless of course they change the law!)"

They are not your registrations,and they can certainly void them....

..........if allowed to....

How about promoting the Atom for what it is? 

An eco friendly,hand built,with a minimal carbon footprint,very fuel efficient means of safe,basic transportation needs for up to two individuals.


Racecar? Hardly!!
[/quote]
If the Atom complies with the provisions of the law as written, then they cant just revoke the registration. The law works both ways!

Nobody gives a sh1t about the Atom being a minimal carbon footprint or anything esle when it boils down to it. The whole system is just a pile of BS. If it does not comply with the Vehicle Code provisions, it's not getting registered. It's an unforgiving business and nobody is going to change the rules as written any time soon. We either comply or die!
All TMI has to do is sell the Atom "as a kit". It only has to be a "position" they take on the advertising and promotion. It need not change the way the customer ultimately takes delivery of the car, it's how the transaction is advertised and structured on paper that's important. Nothing else matters. It's all about compliance and the majority of that is perception in this case!

[Heywood-Yablowme]

The problem is,TMI would have to lie if they said it was being offered as a kit. It's not,to my knowledge.

Lying to comply with the law is asking for problems.


Making the Atom acceptable transportation for public use means making the Atom acceptable by law.

[fiestycolumbian]

[quote="CalScot"]
Nobody gives a sh1t about the Atom being a minimal carbon footprint or anything esle when it boils down to it. The whole system is just a pile of BS. If it does not comply with the Vehicle Code provisions, it's not getting registered. It's an unforgiving business and nobody is going to change the rules as written any time soon. We either comply or die!
[/quote]
Aint that the truth! Spoken like a true wounded California atom owner.
We are so sick and tired of dealing with CHP/DMV/government, et al., that we literally start blowing a gasket when our own people, i.e. TMI, make it that easy for any motivated officer to revoke our registrations.
Every time I get pulled over, I honestly feel Ive won the lotto if my car doesnt get impounded. Thats how bad it is out here. Im going to throw up again just thinking about it.

fiesty

[bolus]

[quote="Curator"]
The problem is,TMI would have to lie if they said it was being offered as a kit. It's not,to my knowledge.

[/quote]

Better to say nothing at all.  They dont have to lie

[silver]

[quote="bolus"]
[quote="Curator"]
The problem is,TMI would have to lie if they said it was being offered as a kit. It's not,to my knowledge.

[/quote]

Better to say nothing at all.  They dont have to lie
[/quote]

How do we know Ariel's not Making them put this information on the website?

Bruce, do you know?