I am new to the forum but wanted to say hello. I was on business in Ashland, Ore. recently and had the opportunity to meet the staff and view the cars in various states of assembly â?? amazing people and fantastic cars. Unfortunately, I did not have a chance to take a test drive in one of the cars.
My story is that until a little mishap during a driver training school at Portland International Raceway this summer, I was the happy owner of a late model Dodge Viper convertible. Long story short, I am looking to either get another Viper or purchase an Atom.
Some questions and concerns:
1) It would be a deal breaker for me if I could not get the atom registered with DMV/street legal. I live in Oregon. I have done a search on the forum and it appears that the consensus is that Oregon is easier than many other states to register. None of the threads was entirely clear on how to do registrationin Oregon; I saw references to a Brammo â??self assembly kitâ?� (owner completes assembly of engine/drivetrain to rolling chassis in order to qualify for kit car status) but no real step-by-step. Also, are there particularoptions that would make the car more likely to be registered/insured, e.g., the street pack, extended wheel fenders etc. I noted that one Oregon member, Bolus, seems to have gone through this step (both registration and insurance); can you weigh in on this topic?
2) Insurance; I have Farmers and they were pretty good about totaling my Viper even though the accident occurred at PIR. Any other Atom-friendly companies out there (I saw a reference to Progressive?)
3) Emissions; any one in Oregon know how hard it is or what steps need to be taken to pass OR/DMV emissions testing every 2 years? Do I need to modify the Atom in any way or select a certain options package to make the car emissions-friendly?
Sorry for the lengthy e-mail but I greatly appreciate any insights folks can offer.
/Rich
Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
-
DarthChicken
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
As somebody that lives in Oregon (Hillsboro), here are my plans for my order.
I know registering is not a problem - getting the plates in Ashland seems to be the way to go, as the DMV down there is familiar with the car. The demo car is fully registered and licensed.
Insurance - I'm just going to go with Classic insurance. If my insurance company is too proud to take my money for something I'm required to have and I don't have a choice in the matter of, then so be it. I'm going with a 5k mile limit, which is a lot of miles per year in a car like this.
DEQ - possible issue there, still not sure. My belief is that sometime in the next 2 years, 4 months, the codes the computer are currently throwing will be resolved. I plan on buying HPTuners or something along those lines and tuning the car myself at some point anyway (I just can't stop fiddling with stuff) and HPTuner lets you shut off most (if not all) OBD-II codes anyway.
I know registering is not a problem - getting the plates in Ashland seems to be the way to go, as the DMV down there is familiar with the car. The demo car is fully registered and licensed.
Insurance - I'm just going to go with Classic insurance. If my insurance company is too proud to take my money for something I'm required to have and I don't have a choice in the matter of, then so be it. I'm going with a 5k mile limit, which is a lot of miles per year in a car like this.
DEQ - possible issue there, still not sure. My belief is that sometime in the next 2 years, 4 months, the codes the computer are currently throwing will be resolved. I plan on buying HPTuners or something along those lines and tuning the car myself at some point anyway (I just can't stop fiddling with stuff) and HPTuner lets you shut off most (if not all) OBD-II codes anyway.
-
bolus
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
Yay! Another future Oregon Atom owner!
I think I spent over a hundred hours researching this. Between Darth and I we've read the Oregon vehicle code book (all 730 pages) several times. So feel free to ask questions.
In short, Oregon should be one of the easiest states to register. There are some issues though.
1. Out of the entire vehicle code book, ( http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/vcb/2005VCB.pdf ) the only thing the Atom seems to be out of compliance with is a windshield wiper. The car is not inspected for this before registration so it may lead to a ticket if you catch a cop in a bad mood.
2 Emmisions. 2 years after registration you may need a DEQ trip. I say "may" because this legislation passed that exempts assembled vehicles from emission testing:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62056
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/aqplanning/orlev/
If you read the first PDF it says that assembled vehicles (this is how the Atom is registered) are exempt:
"340-257-0060
Exemptions
...
(10) Custom and Assembled vehicles that:
(a) Will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions,
club activities, parades, tours, testing
of operation, repair, maintenance and similar uses; and
(b) Will not be used for general daily transportation."
But when I contacted the DEQ about this they acted like they had no knowledge of this rule change and said we would still need emission testing. So I'm just confused now.
Emission testing is a problem because the Atom throws some OBD-II codes like the MIL code because the car does not have a check engine light. This will fail us at the DEQ even though the car may be running perfectly. But as Darth says, we have 2 years after registration to figure this out.
The other way around this is to register the car at an address outside of Portland or Medford that does not require Emission testing.
On insurance, Farmers told me "no way in hell" when I spoke with them. That was even with my agent being a car enthusiast. But other forum members have been successful. So it depends on who you talk to. Classic will cover you for sure but this is a mile-limited policy. The Oregon insurance broker that can work with you is Greg at 541-482-1921
I'll PM you wil my contact information if you have more questions.
Did you wipe out the viper at the Prodrive class?
I think I spent over a hundred hours researching this. Between Darth and I we've read the Oregon vehicle code book (all 730 pages) several times. So feel free to ask questions.
In short, Oregon should be one of the easiest states to register. There are some issues though.
1. Out of the entire vehicle code book, ( http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/vcb/2005VCB.pdf ) the only thing the Atom seems to be out of compliance with is a windshield wiper. The car is not inspected for this before registration so it may lead to a ticket if you catch a cop in a bad mood.
2 Emmisions. 2 years after registration you may need a DEQ trip. I say "may" because this legislation passed that exempts assembled vehicles from emission testing:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62056
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/aqplanning/orlev/
If you read the first PDF it says that assembled vehicles (this is how the Atom is registered) are exempt:
"340-257-0060
Exemptions
...
(10) Custom and Assembled vehicles that:
(a) Will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions,
club activities, parades, tours, testing
of operation, repair, maintenance and similar uses; and
(b) Will not be used for general daily transportation."
But when I contacted the DEQ about this they acted like they had no knowledge of this rule change and said we would still need emission testing. So I'm just confused now.
Emission testing is a problem because the Atom throws some OBD-II codes like the MIL code because the car does not have a check engine light. This will fail us at the DEQ even though the car may be running perfectly. But as Darth says, we have 2 years after registration to figure this out.
The other way around this is to register the car at an address outside of Portland or Medford that does not require Emission testing.
On insurance, Farmers told me "no way in hell" when I spoke with them. That was even with my agent being a car enthusiast. But other forum members have been successful. So it depends on who you talk to. Classic will cover you for sure but this is a mile-limited policy. The Oregon insurance broker that can work with you is Greg at 541-482-1921
I'll PM you wil my contact information if you have more questions.
Did you wipe out the viper at the Prodrive class?
-
rcl4668
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="bolus"]
Yay! Another future Oregon Atom owner!
I think I spent over a hundred hours researching this. Between Darth and I we've read the Oregon vehicle code book (all 730 pages) several times. So feel free to ask questions.
In short, Oregon should be one of the easiest states to register. There are some issues though.
1. Out of the entire vehicle code book, ( http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/vcb/2005VCB.pdf ) the only thing the Atom seems to be out of compliance with is a windshield wiper. The car is not inspected for this before registration so it may lead to a ticket if you catch a cop in a bad mood.Â
2 Emmisions. 2 years after registration you may need a DEQ trip. I say "may" because this legislation passed that exempts assembled vehicles from emission testing:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62056
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/aqplanning/orlev/
If you read the first PDF it says that assembled vehicles (this is how the Atom is registered) are exempt:Â
"340-257-0060
Exemptions
...
(10) Custom and Assembled vehicles that:
(a) Will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions,
club activities, parades, tours, testing
of operation, repair, maintenance and similar uses; and
(b) Will not be used for general daily transportation."
But when I contacted the DEQ about this they acted like they had no knowledge of this rule change and said we would still need emission testing. So I'm just confused now.
Emission testing is a problem because the Atom throws some OBD-II codes like the MIL code because the car does not have a check engine light. This will fail us at the DEQ even though the car may be running perfectly. But as Darth says, we have 2 years after registration to figure this out.
The other way around this is to register the car at an address outside of Portland or Medford that does not require Emission testing.Â
On insurance, Farmers told me "no way in hell" when I spoke with them. That was even with my agent being a car enthusiast. But other forum members have been successful. So it depends on who you talk to.  Classic will cover you for sure but this is a mile-limited policy. The Oregon insurance broker that can work with you is Greg at 541-482-1921
I'll PM you wil my contact information if you have more questions.Â
Did you wipe out the viper at the Prodrive class?
[/quote]
Wow . . . thanks for your quick and informative responses. Bolus, I will e-mail you separately but really appreciate the feedback. And no, I had a blue viper. I had my incident (missed shift with the tail coming around) at the Shelby Club driving school; with six-point harnesses, a rollbar and a helmet I walked away without so much as a bruise or sore neck. You may be thinking of my friend Jay (was ti a black Viper) who had a higher impact crash trying to pass someone on the front straight at PIR. He is ok now but has sustained some back injuries. i will hopefully talk to you soon.
/Rich
Yay! Another future Oregon Atom owner!
I think I spent over a hundred hours researching this. Between Darth and I we've read the Oregon vehicle code book (all 730 pages) several times. So feel free to ask questions.
In short, Oregon should be one of the easiest states to register. There are some issues though.
1. Out of the entire vehicle code book, ( http://www.oregon.gov/ODOT/DMV/docs/vcb/2005VCB.pdf ) the only thing the Atom seems to be out of compliance with is a windshield wiper. The car is not inspected for this before registration so it may lead to a ticket if you catch a cop in a bad mood.Â
2 Emmisions. 2 years after registration you may need a DEQ trip. I say "may" because this legislation passed that exempts assembled vehicles from emission testing:
http://www.semasan.com/main/main.aspx?id=62056
http://www.deq.state.or.us/aq/aqplanning/orlev/
If you read the first PDF it says that assembled vehicles (this is how the Atom is registered) are exempt:Â
"340-257-0060
Exemptions
...
(10) Custom and Assembled vehicles that:
(a) Will be maintained for occasional transportation, exhibitions,
club activities, parades, tours, testing
of operation, repair, maintenance and similar uses; and
(b) Will not be used for general daily transportation."
But when I contacted the DEQ about this they acted like they had no knowledge of this rule change and said we would still need emission testing. So I'm just confused now.
Emission testing is a problem because the Atom throws some OBD-II codes like the MIL code because the car does not have a check engine light. This will fail us at the DEQ even though the car may be running perfectly. But as Darth says, we have 2 years after registration to figure this out.
The other way around this is to register the car at an address outside of Portland or Medford that does not require Emission testing.Â
On insurance, Farmers told me "no way in hell" when I spoke with them. That was even with my agent being a car enthusiast. But other forum members have been successful. So it depends on who you talk to.  Classic will cover you for sure but this is a mile-limited policy. The Oregon insurance broker that can work with you is Greg at 541-482-1921
I'll PM you wil my contact information if you have more questions.Â
Did you wipe out the viper at the Prodrive class?
[/quote]
Wow . . . thanks for your quick and informative responses. Bolus, I will e-mail you separately but really appreciate the feedback. And no, I had a blue viper. I had my incident (missed shift with the tail coming around) at the Shelby Club driving school; with six-point harnesses, a rollbar and a helmet I walked away without so much as a bruise or sore neck. You may be thinking of my friend Jay (was ti a black Viper) who had a higher impact crash trying to pass someone on the front straight at PIR. He is ok now but has sustained some back injuries. i will hopefully talk to you soon.
/Rich
-
bolus
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
Rich emailed me on some research he did that I thought was worth sharing here in case it may help anyone else:
I have been doing some research on the emissions issue for the atom. I
contacted Dave Nordberg (503-229-5696) at DEQ emissions and he
confirmed that the proposed regulations you cited have been finalized.
However, he said that these regulations do not necessarily exempt the
purchaser of the assembled vehicle from biannual DEQ emissions testing.
Rather, they exempt the manufacturer of the atom from complying with
more stringent CARB (California) emissions standards. Also, the
exemptions will apply for vehicles built as of the 2009 model year.
Out of curiosity, I contacted Craig Bramscher at Brammo and asked his
opinion on the emissions issue; he said that a political solution is
being worked on with the governor's office for assembled vehicles but
he could obviously not give me a timeline. He also believed that it
would be possible to avoid emissions by having the customer assemble
the engine to the rolling chassis (or by having the customer use a
local shop to do the work). However, I contacted Ray Larivee
(503-533-9488) at DMV who stated that it does not depend on user
assembly but rather by what year engine is in the assmbled vehicle.
For example, if the engine is a 2007 GM Ecotec, it need to have the
OBD-compliant emissions equipment (other than the catalytic converter)
for that manufacture year, regardless of whether the vehicle is
assembled or a kit car assembled by the purchaser. The requirement for
the catalytic converter is determined by the model year of the chassis.
Ray faxed me the relevant Or DEQ regulations on this point and they
seem pretty explicit.
I have been doing some research on the emissions issue for the atom. I
contacted Dave Nordberg (503-229-5696) at DEQ emissions and he
confirmed that the proposed regulations you cited have been finalized.
However, he said that these regulations do not necessarily exempt the
purchaser of the assembled vehicle from biannual DEQ emissions testing.
Rather, they exempt the manufacturer of the atom from complying with
more stringent CARB (California) emissions standards. Also, the
exemptions will apply for vehicles built as of the 2009 model year.
Out of curiosity, I contacted Craig Bramscher at Brammo and asked his
opinion on the emissions issue; he said that a political solution is
being worked on with the governor's office for assembled vehicles but
he could obviously not give me a timeline. He also believed that it
would be possible to avoid emissions by having the customer assemble
the engine to the rolling chassis (or by having the customer use a
local shop to do the work). However, I contacted Ray Larivee
(503-533-9488) at DMV who stated that it does not depend on user
assembly but rather by what year engine is in the assmbled vehicle.
For example, if the engine is a 2007 GM Ecotec, it need to have the
OBD-compliant emissions equipment (other than the catalytic converter)
for that manufacture year, regardless of whether the vehicle is
assembled or a kit car assembled by the purchaser. The requirement for
the catalytic converter is determined by the model year of the chassis.
Ray faxed me the relevant Or DEQ regulations on this point and they
seem pretty explicit.
-
DarthChicken
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
So we just gotta get the relevant codes figured out.
Any news from Brammo or Terry?
Any news from Brammo or Terry?
-
bolus
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
No word yet. If I remember correctly, Terry needed to figure out the codes before he could register though so I expect he is working on them.
-
maverick1
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
I thought that you only had to get emission testing done if you lived in the Portland or Medford areas of Oregon.
cheers
cheers
-
Terry Kennedy
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="bolus"]
No word yet. If I remember correctly, Terry needed to figure out the codes before he could register though so I expect he is working on them.Â
[/quote]
No, the registration section I am registering under is exempt from both emissions and safety testing. I just want to get the car to run clean with no codes.
No word yet. If I remember correctly, Terry needed to figure out the codes before he could register though so I expect he is working on them.Â
[/quote]
No, the registration section I am registering under is exempt from both emissions and safety testing. I just want to get the car to run clean with no codes.
-
bolus
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="maverick1"]
I thought that you only had to get emission testing done if you lived in the Portland or Medford areas of Oregon.
cheers
[/quote]
This is true, but I dont have an address outside of Portland that I can use to register the car. Moving is last resort
I thought that you only had to get emission testing done if you lived in the Portland or Medford areas of Oregon.
cheers
[/quote]
This is true, but I dont have an address outside of Portland that I can use to register the car. Moving is last resort
-
rcl4668
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="bolus"]
No word yet. If I remember correctly, Terry needed to figure out the codes before he could register though so I expect he is working on them.Â
[/quote]
No, the registration section I am registering under is exempt from both emissions and safety testing. I just want to get the car to run clean with no codes.
[/quote]
Maverick --
You are correct but I am also in the Portland, Ore. area and would not be able to take advantage of this exemption.
Terry --
Pardon my ignorance, but do you work with/for Brammo? If I may ask, what work have you bveen doing regarding the OBD/emissions issue? Finally, what did yo umean when you say that "the registration section * * * is exempt from both emissions and safety testing."? Do you live in Oregon and is there in fact a way around having to go through DEQ emissions testing?
Thanks for any insights you can provide!
/Rich
[quote="bolus"]
No word yet. If I remember correctly, Terry needed to figure out the codes before he could register though so I expect he is working on them.Â
[/quote]
No, the registration section I am registering under is exempt from both emissions and safety testing. I just want to get the car to run clean with no codes.
[/quote]
Maverick --
You are correct but I am also in the Portland, Ore. area and would not be able to take advantage of this exemption.
Terry --
Pardon my ignorance, but do you work with/for Brammo? If I may ask, what work have you bveen doing regarding the OBD/emissions issue? Finally, what did yo umean when you say that "the registration section * * * is exempt from both emissions and safety testing."? Do you live in Oregon and is there in fact a way around having to go through DEQ emissions testing?
Thanks for any insights you can provide!
/Rich
-
bolus
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
Rich,
Terry is pretty famous around here since he drove his Atom from Ashland to NY earlier in the year. It is worth reading about his trip here: http://www.atomacrossamerica.org/
He has since volunteered to head up the Atom owner's efforts to help clear the OBD-II issues.
Terry is pretty famous around here since he drove his Atom from Ashland to NY earlier in the year. It is worth reading about his trip here: http://www.atomacrossamerica.org/
He has since volunteered to head up the Atom owner's efforts to help clear the OBD-II issues.
-
Terry Kennedy
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="rcl4668"]
Pardon my ignorance, but do you work with/for Brammo? If I may ask, what work have you bveen doing regarding the OBD/emissions issue? Finally, what did yo umean when you say that "the registration section * * * is exempt from both emissions and safety testing."? Do you live in Oregon and is there in fact a way around having to go through DEQ emissions testing?
Thanks for any insights you can provide![/quote]
No, I don't work for Brammo. I had one of the first US Atoms delivered, as well as being the first car for a number of options. I also volunteered / appointed myself (depending on who you ask) as "user in charge of the code issues" so lots of folks don't have to ask Brammo the same questions over and over. I also probably have the highest-mileage Ecotec Atom (7000+ miles in very varying conditions) so I tend to experience things before other folks. All of this means I communicate with the Brammo folks pretty regularly.
I don't live in Oregon, sorry.
What I meant about registration is that the specific section of the motor vehicle code I am trying to register under states that vehicles specially registered under that section are exempt from safety and emission testing, in exchange for some other trade-offs. I'll have more to say once I actually get the car registered. However, this won't help you in Oregon.
Pardon my ignorance, but do you work with/for Brammo? If I may ask, what work have you bveen doing regarding the OBD/emissions issue? Finally, what did yo umean when you say that "the registration section * * * is exempt from both emissions and safety testing."? Do you live in Oregon and is there in fact a way around having to go through DEQ emissions testing?
Thanks for any insights you can provide![/quote]
No, I don't work for Brammo. I had one of the first US Atoms delivered, as well as being the first car for a number of options. I also volunteered / appointed myself (depending on who you ask) as "user in charge of the code issues" so lots of folks don't have to ask Brammo the same questions over and over. I also probably have the highest-mileage Ecotec Atom (7000+ miles in very varying conditions) so I tend to experience things before other folks. All of this means I communicate with the Brammo folks pretty regularly.
I don't live in Oregon, sorry.
What I meant about registration is that the specific section of the motor vehicle code I am trying to register under states that vehicles specially registered under that section are exempt from safety and emission testing, in exchange for some other trade-offs. I'll have more to say once I actually get the car registered. However, this won't help you in Oregon.
-
rcl4668
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
Terry --
Holy moley, I just skimmed your website and all I can say is . . . amazing! When I visited Brammo Melody D. mentioned an owner who travelled cross country; so you truly are the stuff of legend, even for the folks at Brammo. Your pics of NYC and Jersey got me feeling very nostalgic (went to college in NJ and grew up in NY). Thanks again for the website.
If you don't mind my asking, what are your current thoughts about making the Atom completely ODBII-compliant? Is this something that Brammo could do by way of a reflash of the ECU or would it entail hardware/component changes?
/Rich
Holy moley, I just skimmed your website and all I can say is . . . amazing! When I visited Brammo Melody D. mentioned an owner who travelled cross country; so you truly are the stuff of legend, even for the folks at Brammo. Your pics of NYC and Jersey got me feeling very nostalgic (went to college in NJ and grew up in NY). Thanks again for the website.
If you don't mind my asking, what are your current thoughts about making the Atom completely ODBII-compliant? Is this something that Brammo could do by way of a reflash of the ECU or would it entail hardware/component changes?
/Rich
-
Terry Kennedy
Re: Questions re Street Legal Status in Oregon
[quote="rcl4668"]If you don't mind my asking, what are your current thoughts about making the Atom completely ODBII-compliant? Is this something that Brammo could do by way of a reflash of the ECU or would it entail hardware/component changes?[/quote]
Most of what's needed is already there. A working Check Engine light is needed to get the P0650 code to go away. The P0230 fuel pump code is due to an unforseen interaction with the immobiliser and can be fixed in a subsequent ECU reflash. The P010x are due to issues in the air inlet hose and should be fixed. Some owners have P0520 oil pressure events which we're still tracking down. That's it for the common codes.
I hope to have a solution for the P0650 sometime over the winter - I have all the parts and I just need to get some time in the garage and try and blow up my ECUÂ
For those who are interested in the hypothetical Atom-specific OBDII tool I polled a while ago, it may require some more pins to be populated in the OBDII connector and run to either the cluster area or the ECU, depending on the options installed in the Atom.
Most of what's needed is already there. A working Check Engine light is needed to get the P0650 code to go away. The P0230 fuel pump code is due to an unforseen interaction with the immobiliser and can be fixed in a subsequent ECU reflash. The P010x are due to issues in the air inlet hose and should be fixed. Some owners have P0520 oil pressure events which we're still tracking down. That's it for the common codes.
I hope to have a solution for the P0650 sometime over the winter - I have all the parts and I just need to get some time in the garage and try and blow up my ECUÂ
For those who are interested in the hypothetical Atom-specific OBDII tool I polled a while ago, it may require some more pins to be populated in the OBDII connector and run to either the cluster area or the ECU, depending on the options installed in the Atom.
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