Matt F....any positive news on your PA registration?

[dingo]

I have to agree with Driver on this one.  Where's the written regulation on exhaust shielding requirements? Did you ask for same?

Most cars have their Catalytic converters way closer to the ground than does the Atom.

I think you have to push back on these "failures to comply."  Being well informed and gracious are both key.
I learned that when I first was laughed out of the inspection hall, (for many of the same "issues" that you've had quoted at you), that I could appeal to the lady (in my case) who heads up a division of Dept of Licensing in WA State called Equipment and Specifications.
Perhaps there's and equivalent official who you can bribe (I mean, approach) ~  withdrawn !

[benyeats]

I read exhaust shielding to mean a cover so that a pedestrian can't burn themselves on the exposed exhaust.

Ben

[kenazusa]

Move to Arizona. It's really nice here.

[dingo]

And the ambient temperature of asphalt in Summer is hotter than exhaust EVER gets.
And they don't shield THAT.

[kenazusa]

It's an hour to the mountains - if we can do it on a bike you can do it in an Atom.

All kidding aside - Matt - it's a really tough deal. There must be a way to figure it out without trying to turn the Atom into something it's not. There must be another angle. There are people here that try to drive very expensive cars and title them in Oregon (no taxes)- if they get stopped there is a lot of explaining to do, so I know that's a tough route also.

Good luck and keep us posted. 

[Driver]

If that's the case then what about all the Model T's, Cobra's, etc.. that run "unshielded exhaust". Get the definition of what they mean by that, it sounds like they made it up.

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="Driver"]
If that's the case then what about all the Model T's, Cobra's, etc.. that run "unshielded exhaust". Get the definition of what they mean by that, it sounds like they made it up.
[/quote]

First, most of the people you'll meet at the DMV just want to say "no" to anything unusual, because otherwise they'd have to do more work. You'd be amazed at the excuses they can come up with - once I get my paperwork processed and accepted I'll provide a full account of the things I've had to go through.

Having said all that, some state's DMV agencies want to see a note on the certificate of origin stating that a vehicle complies with all federal standards (FMVSS) as of the date of manufacture. For a regular production car, this can (and often is) implied. When you get into a specialty car like the Atom, or a kit, if you're in a state that cares about this, you won't be able to get an unrestricted registration without going through major hoops (like getting a compliance lab to certify the car). There is often a loophole you can use, which goes by various names, which allows limited mileage in exchange for exemption from these standards. An example would be when you see a bulldozer driving down the road with a "contractor equipment" plate. You just need to determine what sort of exemptions are available in your state and work (and work... and work...) on getting the state to actually honor them.

A Model T or similar vehicle meets all the safety standards that were in place at the time it was manufactured. Where we run into problems with cars like the Atom is that today's standards are more stringent, and since Brammo labels the car for off-road use and has such small production numbers, it isn't cost-effective for them to go for FMVSS compliance as it is outside their market. [I've heard that the bare minimum a manufacturer needs to spend to achieve compliance is $35M or so.]

[07Atom]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
First, most of the people you'll meet at the DMV just want to say "no" to anything unusual, because otherwise they'd have to do more work. You'd be amazed at the excuses they can come up with - once I get my paperwork processed and accepted I'll provide a full account of the things I've had to go through.
[/quote]

Really? My Atom isn't done yet, but the people I've talked to at the DMV all seems to be excited to be part of registering my Atom... It's the smog guys I'm really worried about...

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="07Atom"]Really? My Atom isn't done yet, but the people I've talked to at the DMV all seems to be excited to be part of registering my Atom... It's the smog guys I'm really worried about...
[/quote]

It depends on the state. There's an "east coast attitude" which makes things more difficult here. In Oregon, it seems the only thing you need is a hand-operated windshield wiper (squeegee). California is of course on its own planet.

If your state (I'm not sure where you are) smogs via OBD2, you should probably be OK. The only issue is that the Ecotec ECU will throw a P0650 code ("Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Malfunction") because the cluster doesn't have a check engine light. An inspection tech might want to fail you for that, but you can point out that if they read the state of the MIL lamp, it will come back as "off", meaning no problem found. Your car might also throw a P0230. This is because the immobilizer disables the fuel pump relay (among other things), which the ECU detects as a fault. If your inspection agency wants "no faults" for a pass, tie the immobilizer fob to the immobilizer antenna so it is always in range and have the codes cleared before going to inspection*. You might also have a P0101 set if you've ever had the air snorkel off (it comes from crud on the MAF sensor).

* Note that it takes a period of code- and trouble-free operation for the engine ECU to report that it is happy. The DMV is used to people erasing fault codes while on line at the inspection station, so be sure to let the ECU run its tests to completion (do a search for "GM OBD-II Driving Cycle" for the sequence to run all tests).

If your state does a tailpipe test, make sure you have the cat installed (you probably don't have a cat from the factory at this point - you have the test pipe instead).

[07Atom]

Ah... yeah, I'm in California, and that all sounds like some helpful info, thanks! 

Didn't know that Oregon required windshield wipers... what if there's no windshield? 

[Bruce Fielding]

Ah, to live in the land of the free!

Mind you, we're going the same way. Thank heavens we don't have a written constituition... that's the beginning of the end.

If the DMV people work so hard to try to fail the car, surely someone could point out that it's less work to pass it than to find excuses to fail.

Compare frown:smile muscle ratios...

[Matt F]

[quote="benyeats"]
I read exhaust shielding to mean a cover so that a pedestrian can't burn themselves on the exposed exhaust.[/quote]

That's right, Ben.  It's actually the one item that's both sensible and easy to correct.

The problem in PA is that there's no dialogue at all.  I (actually the independent inspecting station) submitted papers at the end of June.  My application was rejected without explanation.  My agent requested an explanation, and finally, nearly three months after applying, those points were listed as the reasons for rejection.  So there isn't much back-and forth conversation or much ability to appeal to reason.

[Driver]

Everythings appealable.. You just might have to get litigious in order to do it though.

Likely easier just to buy that $2k chunk of land, set up dual residency and register it in another state. Set up a corporation, loan it to yourself as a "company car". This way when the cops pull you over, the out of state corporation "owns" it, insures it and the cop can't give you a ticket for failing to register it after 30 days or whatever the local statute says. If PA wants to bend you over, screw 'em back.

[Mr.Woolery]

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="07Atom"]Really? My Atom isn't done yet, but the people I've talked to at the DMV all seems to be excited to be part of registering my Atom... It's the smog guys I'm really worried about...
[/quote]

It depends on the state. There's an "east coast attitude" which makes things more difficult here. In Oregon, it seems the only thing you need is a hand-operated windshield wiper (squeegee). California is of course on its own planet.

If your state (I'm not sure where you are) smogs via OBD2, you should probably be OK. The only issue is that the Ecotec ECU will throw a P0650 code ("Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL) Control Circuit Malfunction") because the cluster doesn't have a check engine light. An inspection tech might want to fail you for that, but you can point out that if they read the state of the MIL lamp, it will come back as "off", meaning no problem found. Your car might also throw a P0230. This is because the immobilizer disables the fuel pump relay (among other things), which the ECU detects as a fault. If your inspection agency wants "no faults" for a pass, tie the immobilizer fob to the immobilizer antenna so it is always in range and have the codes cleared before going to inspection*. You might also have a P0101 set if you've ever had the air snorkel off (it comes from crud on the MAF sensor).

* Note that it takes a period of code- and trouble-free operation for the engine ECU to report that it is happy. The DMV is used to people erasing fault codes while on line at the inspection station, so be sure to let the ECU run its tests to completion (do a search for "GM OBD-II Driving Cycle" for the sequence to run all tests).

If your state does a tailpipe test, make sure you have the cat installed (you probably don't have a cat from the factory at this point - you have the test pipe instead).
[/quote]

Thank you very much for this info, Terry.  It is most helpful.  The P0230 & P0101 codes should be easy enough to prevent to pass an ODBII scan.  The P0650 code (MIL control circuit) fault is a whole other matter, especially considering the potential for bureacracy driods to mess up the whole registration process.  I wonder if there's any way to replicate the MIL control circuit in the Atom so that the ODBII circuit doesn't throw a code?  Heck, it might even be worth having a "Check Engine" light in place anyway. 

Barring that, I wonder what it would take to get GM to create a custom ecu flash to remove at least the P0650 code (and possibly the P0230 code as well)?

[Terry Kennedy]

[quote="MrWoolery"]Barring that, I wonder what it would take to get GM to create a custom ecu flash to remove at least the P0650 code (and possibly the P0230 code as well)?
[/quote]

My understanding is that they can't get rid of the P0650. I don't know if that means it is in a code module they licensed and don't have the source to, or if it is just too much work. The P0230 came as a surprise, and last I heard, a future revision (possibly the one to support a cat) may have this fixed.

Remember, the ECU for the Atom is already running special firmware from GM.