C@terham - the "other track day" car

[Driver]

Well since this has come up in another thread, here's a place to discuss the intricaies of why, maybe, the Forum needs to keep cars spelled as they are, rather than substituting  for their names. Here's a quick poll so people can express their opinions and the moderators can see how people feel. you are able to change your vote as well if you change your mind.


My Opinon:
[quote="Tim Arnold"][quote="Bruce Fielding"]Neither this site nor the main site have yet been optimised for search engines.[/quote]As far as Google and other similar meta search engines are concerned the site doesn't need to be optimised, Bruce, putting it in simple terms, Google reads the body text in the page and indexes that, even if it's a database generated page, Google will list it if someone searches for certain text that happens to be in that page! [/quote]

What Tim wrote here is very true. Pretty much all search engines, will follow the text within the pages of a PHP based forum as long as it doesn't require a login. Which leads us to Bruce's next point....

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]I wouldn't worry about people looking for caterhams - we need to concentrate on people looking for Atoms first! [/quote]
Lets posit this scenario: I've just come into some extra cash and am looking around for a new car to play with or a motorcycle. I've seen C@terhams and never heard of Atoms. I go online and start delving around for info on lightweight cars and search for C@terham. I find NO mention of the Atom as an alternative.

Wouldn't it be nice if at least one of the results was a link to the Atom Forums? Maybe I would find the car more attractive than the C@terham (which I do). Maybe I'm a larger guy and didn't know that the C@aterham wouldn't even fit me (which in the case of an El1se IS the case). If there is even the slightest chance that the Atom would be more visible by not censoring people's spelling then I think names should be left alone..

[Bruce Fielding]

Nah. What the duck do you think this forum is for?. Any rabbit wanting a "other track car" deserves all the shinola they get

That's interesting. I used quite a few different words there!

Just my two cents. This isn't a sales site, it's an enthusaists site. For those  into Atoms, great. For those not I could't give a flying devil what they think

[ross]

Random word replacement makes me laugh so I'm fine with it to be honest.  Regular members will get used to it anyhow

[Driver]

I've known about the 'other car' for something like 10 years. Came close to buying one a few years back. It took an engineering buddy telling me about the Atom to make me aware, that was just a year ago and I was looking heavily at the Cat when I changed my mind. I've also considered the Elise until this past summer when I realized it's just too small, too confined of a seating position. Literally if my buddy hadn't mentioned it I wouldn't have found out about it until I saw the Top Gear show. There are LOTS of people in the States that have never heard of the Atom, never been exposed to the TV shows that would review it because frankly, besides the mention on Discovery Channel's regurgitation of Top Gear that 1 time, I don't think it's been aired on any other stateside show that I've seen, if any. They don't have the money for those, non-partial  , non-endorsement, "enthusiasts" shows to mention it. It'll never make it onto them for the most part.

As you said this is an enthusiasts site. I can see why one would consider shining on the "other track car' owner, but why not make it easy for the potential buyer to be turned away from that before they buy one? Of course, I guess some people would like to keep it a small niche vehicle. Exclusivity makes for high resale values. For me, the more exposure for the Atom, the more sold, then the more likelyhood the registration process is cleared up as well as finding insurance carriers over here. Also the more chance of having more than 1 other person that shares tinterest in the Atom somewhere within 500 miles of me. But that's just me.

[benyeats]

[quote="Driver"]
Lets posit this scenario: I've just come into some extra cash and am looking around for a new car to play with or a motorcycle. I've seen C@terhams and never heard of Atoms. I go online and start delving around for info on lightweight cars and search for C@terham. I find NO mention of the Atom as an alternative.
[/quote]

Lets posit a different scenario:  I come into some extra cash and make damn sure I research the available options before blowing a substantial sum on a car, if not then I am a deviling idiot and not a car enthusiast !

As pointed out the Atom is 'automotive crack' once a few of the mags in the US get hold of one there will be no stopping the publicity machine.  The fact it is not well known in the US yet is probably a reflection of the fact Brammo have not even built any yet !

Ben

[Driver]

We'll just have to wait 6 months to test your scenario out. Although Brammo has had the UK built one long enough for a few mags to get ahold of it and nobody has that I've seen. The "Industry" over here generally won't talk to you unless you advertise with them (ie GM, Ford, etc...). I'm hoping the Atom will get noticed by some of the bigger 'zines. We'll just have to see...

The issue with "researching" is that generally people go with what they see at the track, or what another friend says. Again those nebulous search results would be nice if they search for a different car like a Cobra or Elise that maybe the Atom might get returned. That's what I'm trying to say.And if people don't know that there is a US Atom then how can they search on it by keyword unless they've seen that one Top Gear episode on Disco? You more or less have to be told or stumble across it at this point, over here. And for some people 50K is chump change (not me), they'd drop that on an impulse buy. My Uncle was always bringing home some sort of street rod or race car, that he just bought because he saw it and wanted it. All of his knowledge of the European stuff is 20 years old though, unless it's of the Ferrari or Lambo notoriety in the US press.

[Bruce Fielding]

But this is the same scenario that existed in the UK when I bought my first one. And I heard about it from a motor  industry friend who knew Simon.

If you know, and you're a petrolhead, you'll know, or you'll know someone who knows.

I wouldn't worry about the press - car and driver and road and track will both have stuff when Brammo's ready - there's no point in generating demand that can't be filled. It only breeds disappointment.

Far better to satisfy the latent demand of those like the Americans on this forum first and then let word spread - and it will spread - you can't keep a car as radical as an Atom a secret. It'll be played in games, shown in advertising for others... there are many ways that the car will enter the american consciousness.

I'm interetsed though. I still don't get why anyone would see this site as a sales aid?

[Atom120]

Please don't let this become an Ariel sales site. It is an owners club forum, and should stay that way. And besides, the Atom really doesn't need any more sales aids!!

The "other track car" is done as a bit of a joke - and 99% of people know that. I don't care if its not politically correct, I really don't. If a potential buyer gets put off buying the because of some light banter, or can't be arsed to do a more detailed google search before spending their £30k, then they're not the right person for an Atom. Simon and Tom both have a sense of humour, and I know they prefer it when their customers do too!

[ka mano]

I, too, find this thread interesting.  While it would never occur to me to ask, "Should we all do this or that" when it comes to what we call a type of car (especially when we all know what's being referred to  :) ), I'm always alert when someone wants to establish conformity of expression.

In the poll, Driver, you reference 'the board.'  Who is that?  The uniform mass of us?  The majority?  What if 80% of us wanted to say Caterham and the rest didn't or didn't take this seriously... what would we do then?

Believe me, I look forward to reading your postings which often show passion and often, for me, bring the unexpected.  Nothing more so than this thread.  I support you in asking questions like your poll.  Raises other interesting questions.  For instance, this scenario:

There develops in this forum a majority interested in many things A**m, but especially in it's resale value increasing over time.  A group develops within that majority who believes that the first A**ms will accrue great value if fewer are sold during the early years, and they conclude that being found by search engines is a liability.  You disagree with them on this, but a vote is taken, the moderators are convinced, and this place becomes the A**m Club Forum.  You find this miguided -- and even a little silly -- and keep spelling it 'Atom' in your postings... .  What are we to do with you?             :)

[ka mano]

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[Driver]

[quote="ka mano"]
I, too, find this thread interesting.  While it would never occur to me to ask, "Should we all do this or that" when it comes to what we call a type of car (especially when we all know what's being referred to  :) ), I'm always alert when someone wants to establish conformity of expression.

In the poll, Driver, you reference 'the board.'  Who is that?  The uniform mass of us?  The majority?  What if 80% of us wanted to say "other track car" and the rest didn't or didn't take this seriously... what would we do then?[/i][/quote]

When I first started reading this forum, I did not know what other track car meant until I saw it for the 4th or 5th time. It just seemed, silly. It's not like the board does the same for Radical's or Noble or a few other track cars. It seems to single out C@terham's. It may have been meant as a joke, but it is a form of censorship which I don't beleive belongs on a forum except for strong language (cussing). It forces conformity in that respect, rather than free expression. If you were on the F-Body forums and everytime someone mentioned the Mustang it replaced it with "other car" it just looks, well, childish, for lack of a better word. Reminds me of an ostrich with it's head in the sand. If people read this and vote and everybody feels it's acceptable then that's the majority. Not that this forum is run as a democracy though. I can't object to this other than to voice my opinion. Which I have. And so far early on people find it cute and want to leave it as is. I'm just not for most forms of censorship which shouldn't be construed as being for conformity.

Re Exclusivity:
l don't look on better visibility in a search engine as advertising.  I just look on this as sharing a passion, the more the merrier. Again, search engines allow like-minded people to find each other. Maybe I'm wrong, the majority may desire to keep it exclusive. For me if I find a cool item, I let my friends know about it rather than keeping it a secret, I'm just  that way.

As far as the media goes:
If I was to count on the US advertising mechanism then I'd be using a Miata, a Mustang or a Corvette as a street legal track car. Imports get little, if any, recognition. The only way to tell if things pick up is to wait and see. A year from now we'll know if the US publicity machine will recognize the Atom or if, for the most part, it is ignored. I think it will be written about, but will it be the little boutique magazines or will the big ones pick it up? In time, we'll find out. The car cutlure here is a LOT different from what you have in Europe.

[Bruce Fielding]

Lighten up and grab a sense of humo(u)r. Silly is OK. Life's too bloody serious anyway.

I'm sure. like most others on this forum, I have nothing particularly against Caterhams. It's only a bit of fun and not worthy of intellectual discussion of this depth. Oh, and Miatas... they're Japanese last time I looked...

[AtomFun]

I think like most others I've always regarded the 'other' descriptions with great humour.

I voted to allow posters to describe the other car as they wished, it's good fun, long may it reign!

[ka mano]

[quote="Driver"]

...It's not like the board does the same for Radical's or Noble or a few other track cars. It seems to single out C@terham's. It may have been meant as a joke, but it is a form of censorship which I don't beleive belongs on a forum except for strong language (cussing). It forces conformity in that respect, rather than free expression... .  I'm just not for most forms of censorship which shouldn't be construed as being for conformity.

[/quote]

Again, who is this 'board' who is singling out Caterhams?  How is it censorship for someone to goof around with the way he or she spells somethin'?  Censorshp comes, by degree, as we begin to pressure people to conform.  Now, if you've felt pressure to write, "the other car," that would infuse a little spark into this discussion.

I must admit, though, I am startin' to feel a bit of pressure to start mispellin' stuff like them English.         :)

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="ka mano"]
Again, who is this 'board' who is singling out Caterhams? 
[/quote]

You will note, by the way that you can type Caterhams, Caterhaming, Caterhamed, BloodyCaterham, NarrowCaterham, Anti-FatBoyCaterham and all sorts of other words with impunity!