It's always useful to look back very soon after an event and think about what went right, and what could have been improved on.
Frankly, I don't think there was that much room for improvement. I was mightily impressed, but I'm sure there were some small things that might have been done differently (and 'differently' doesn't have to mean badly).
For example, I think most of us would have paid a daily rate for the track time - a couple of hundred dollars a day per car/driver and even a few bucks per club member passenger (in the same style as most UK track days) would have contributed another few thousand dollars to the coffers.
I also had quite a few people tell me that they thought the school day wasn't very good in terms of schooling. Maybe it was the level of teaching that could have been 'streamed' for novices, intermediate and advanced. I know that some of the people I went out with had previously had very little track time, and even simple basic technique lessons would have made the next two days a better learning bed for them. Hallett is a circuit that really benefits from left foot breaking, so that would have been useful. Just observing technique demonstrated that a little instruction would have gone a long way. So maybe more instructors would have enhanced this 'tuition' day.
The RV situation I don't think is worth mentioning... although if we ever have a do at Hallett again, I'm renting something else, or building a hotel in the infield!
Oh, and I would have made sure that Craig and some of the lads from Ashland bothered to show up. I think the attendance of the UK factory contingent and Simon flying in for just one day showed so much more commitment than I saw from Brammo. Not taking anything away from the two Brammmo reps, but really - c'mon guys...
Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
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Bruce Fielding
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Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
Last edited by Bruce Fielding on Mon Oct 22, 2007 1:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Ariel Atom Owners Club founder, based in Central London
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foobar12345
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
It's always useful to look back very soon after an event and think about what went right, and what could have been improved on.
Frankly, I don't think there was that much room for improvement. I was mightily impressed, but I'm sure there were some small things that might have been done differently (and 'differently' doesn't have to mean badly).
For example, I think most of us would have paid a daily rate for the track time - a couple of hundred dollars a day per car/driver and even a few bucks per club member passenger (in the same style as most UK track days) would have contributed another few thousand dollars to the coffers.
I also had quite a few people tell me that they thought the school day wasn't very good in terms of schooling. Maybe it was the level of teaching that could have been 'streamed' for novices, intermediate and advanced. I know that some of the people I went out with had previously had very little track time, and even simple basic technique lessons would have made the next two days a better learning bed for them. Hallett is a circuit that really benefits from left foot breaking, so that would have been useful. Just observing technique demonstrated that a little instruction would have gone a long way. So maybe more instructors would have enhanced this 'tuition' day.
The RV situation I don't think is worth mentioning... although if we ever have a do at Hallett again, I'm renting something else, or building a hotel in the infield!
Oh, and I would have made sure that Craig and some of the lads from Ashland bothered to show up. I think the attendance of the UK factory contingent and Simon flying in for just one day showed so much more commitment than I saw from Brammo. Not taking anything away from the two Brammmo reps, but really - c'mon guys...
[/quote]
Bruce,
I would have been more than willing to pay normal rates for track days to add cash to the AtomFest fund. Mostly, I want to ensure that Randy feels like the endeavour is worth continuing and there is no quicker way to chill that than to have him take a loss on the venture for the year. In fact, I would be willing to contribute now if there is any shortfall.
Regarding schooling, NASA (an amateur racing org in the US) has an experience classification system which we may want to use. Beginners and intermediates get standardized classroom instruction and session evaluation. Beginners also have an instructor riding in-car to help them. I never had the chance to do a drive-along with Tim Webb or anyone well experienced with the hallet track. I would have enjoyed that to learn the line.
I think that we should have formalized how to deal with problems your car might experience. We should also stock some standard expendible parts at the garage for people who need them (exhaust gaskets, bolts, etc). That stock should be built into the atomfest driving fee as the charity of Jim Sharp doesnt need to extend to next year. I think everyone was taken care of, but it resulted in some scrambling. The worst thing is to have this wonderful car there and not be able to get on the track.
-Brad
It's always useful to look back very soon after an event and think about what went right, and what could have been improved on.
Frankly, I don't think there was that much room for improvement. I was mightily impressed, but I'm sure there were some small things that might have been done differently (and 'differently' doesn't have to mean badly).
For example, I think most of us would have paid a daily rate for the track time - a couple of hundred dollars a day per car/driver and even a few bucks per club member passenger (in the same style as most UK track days) would have contributed another few thousand dollars to the coffers.
I also had quite a few people tell me that they thought the school day wasn't very good in terms of schooling. Maybe it was the level of teaching that could have been 'streamed' for novices, intermediate and advanced. I know that some of the people I went out with had previously had very little track time, and even simple basic technique lessons would have made the next two days a better learning bed for them. Hallett is a circuit that really benefits from left foot breaking, so that would have been useful. Just observing technique demonstrated that a little instruction would have gone a long way. So maybe more instructors would have enhanced this 'tuition' day.
The RV situation I don't think is worth mentioning... although if we ever have a do at Hallett again, I'm renting something else, or building a hotel in the infield!
Oh, and I would have made sure that Craig and some of the lads from Ashland bothered to show up. I think the attendance of the UK factory contingent and Simon flying in for just one day showed so much more commitment than I saw from Brammo. Not taking anything away from the two Brammmo reps, but really - c'mon guys...
[/quote]
Bruce,
I would have been more than willing to pay normal rates for track days to add cash to the AtomFest fund. Mostly, I want to ensure that Randy feels like the endeavour is worth continuing and there is no quicker way to chill that than to have him take a loss on the venture for the year. In fact, I would be willing to contribute now if there is any shortfall.
Regarding schooling, NASA (an amateur racing org in the US) has an experience classification system which we may want to use. Beginners and intermediates get standardized classroom instruction and session evaluation. Beginners also have an instructor riding in-car to help them. I never had the chance to do a drive-along with Tim Webb or anyone well experienced with the hallet track. I would have enjoyed that to learn the line.
I think that we should have formalized how to deal with problems your car might experience. We should also stock some standard expendible parts at the garage for people who need them (exhaust gaskets, bolts, etc). That stock should be built into the atomfest driving fee as the charity of Jim Sharp doesnt need to extend to next year. I think everyone was taken care of, but it resulted in some scrambling. The worst thing is to have this wonderful car there and not be able to get on the track.
-Brad
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John Lloyd
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
I wouldn't be planning an event in France. 
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McFred
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
I'll have to organise my thoughts a little later but the 91 oct gasoline thing put a damper on a few people's track sessions on Thursday. The fuel supplier was even a sponsor. It was inconvenient for some since th enearest pump was more than a few miles from the track.
I had the forethought to have 15 gallons supplied in gas cans. Obviously though that's not always an option for some people.
Otherwise I had no issues with accomodations, food, bathroom/shower facilities or amount of track time.
But I agree with Bruce on the lack of Brammo representation. Tom and Bill showed up and they did a good job of being positive contibutors. I overheard that Craig and his family were all down with the Flu. I can see why he couldn't show.
I did notice while in Bill and Tom's company that they were often used as the US owner's complaint department. I felt for them. They came all the way out there and they had to listen to people's issues one after the other. That's got to be a difficult position to be in. It's not like they can do much about it in the middle of Oklahoma.
I think all in all I spent less than $500 total for 6 days of driving the Atom. Most of that was gasoline. I would have spent more for track time to offset the out-of-pocket damage that Randy might have incurred. That's a VERY inexpensive week for any motorsports event.
I had the forethought to have 15 gallons supplied in gas cans. Obviously though that's not always an option for some people.
Otherwise I had no issues with accomodations, food, bathroom/shower facilities or amount of track time.
But I agree with Bruce on the lack of Brammo representation. Tom and Bill showed up and they did a good job of being positive contibutors. I overheard that Craig and his family were all down with the Flu. I can see why he couldn't show.
I did notice while in Bill and Tom's company that they were often used as the US owner's complaint department. I felt for them. They came all the way out there and they had to listen to people's issues one after the other. That's got to be a difficult position to be in. It's not like they can do much about it in the middle of Oklahoma.
I think all in all I spent less than $500 total for 6 days of driving the Atom. Most of that was gasoline. I would have spent more for track time to offset the out-of-pocket damage that Randy might have incurred. That's a VERY inexpensive week for any motorsports event.
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twebb
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
To The Atom Faithful,
I must apologize for not being at the track on Thursday. Unfortunately, I had to make a quick business trip to LA on Wednesday and could not get back to Hallett until Friday morning.
I had planned to be available on Thursday to help get everyone comfortable with the track. Hallett is a very technical track and can be a bit intimidating for the less experienced driver. My goal was to ride with everyone to decrease the time necessary to come up the learning curve. I should have been there to help with a few driving keys to make your weekend more enjoyable.
Looking back on the weekend, I would have liked to have had some time, perhaps during lunch, when we could have met in the club room to discuss the track, driving techniques and the proper line. I think this would have been helpful.
We should have pulled the data from the Traqmate and used them during lunch to point out areas that could be improved upon. I did get a bit of time with both the Masked Spaz and Shinoo to compare my line on my quick lap versus their lines. I'm not sure whether the chat helped Spaz, but I know that Shinoo picked up some time after our talk. I think a bit of one on one time with each driver would have increased your enjoyment of the event.
Even though the event is past, I can still work with each of you via phone or e-mail. I believe that Randy has captured all of the data from the Traqmate. It will not be difficult to go through your data and provide a bit of feedback. Also, to the extent that anyone has video, I'd be happy to review that as well. The techniques you use at Hallett will be the same ones you use at Silverstone, Road Atlanta, etc. That being said, I must commend everyone for a fun safe weekend. There were no significant offs, and there were no major car issues. My hat goes off to all of you!
I appreciate the opportunity to meet everyone this past week. A big thanks to Calscot for letting me have a go in his beast.
This has been a great experience for me. I have learned a bunch. Should Randy make the decision to put on another AtomFest, we will make the necessary changes such that the next AtomFest is even better.
Finally, a number of you asked whether we could provide some basic suspension setup guidelines for your Atoms. Absolutely. In the next few days, I will put together a brief tutorial. I will include setup guidelines so that they are more enjoyable on the track.
Cheers
Tim Webb
Twebb
I must apologize for not being at the track on Thursday. Unfortunately, I had to make a quick business trip to LA on Wednesday and could not get back to Hallett until Friday morning.
I had planned to be available on Thursday to help get everyone comfortable with the track. Hallett is a very technical track and can be a bit intimidating for the less experienced driver. My goal was to ride with everyone to decrease the time necessary to come up the learning curve. I should have been there to help with a few driving keys to make your weekend more enjoyable.
Looking back on the weekend, I would have liked to have had some time, perhaps during lunch, when we could have met in the club room to discuss the track, driving techniques and the proper line. I think this would have been helpful.
We should have pulled the data from the Traqmate and used them during lunch to point out areas that could be improved upon. I did get a bit of time with both the Masked Spaz and Shinoo to compare my line on my quick lap versus their lines. I'm not sure whether the chat helped Spaz, but I know that Shinoo picked up some time after our talk. I think a bit of one on one time with each driver would have increased your enjoyment of the event.
Even though the event is past, I can still work with each of you via phone or e-mail. I believe that Randy has captured all of the data from the Traqmate. It will not be difficult to go through your data and provide a bit of feedback. Also, to the extent that anyone has video, I'd be happy to review that as well. The techniques you use at Hallett will be the same ones you use at Silverstone, Road Atlanta, etc. That being said, I must commend everyone for a fun safe weekend. There were no significant offs, and there were no major car issues. My hat goes off to all of you!
I appreciate the opportunity to meet everyone this past week. A big thanks to Calscot for letting me have a go in his beast.
This has been a great experience for me. I have learned a bunch. Should Randy make the decision to put on another AtomFest, we will make the necessary changes such that the next AtomFest is even better.
Finally, a number of you asked whether we could provide some basic suspension setup guidelines for your Atoms. Absolutely. In the next few days, I will put together a brief tutorial. I will include setup guidelines so that they are more enjoyable on the track.
Cheers
Tim Webb
Twebb
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Terry Kennedy
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
It's always useful to look back very soon after an event and think about what went right, and what could have been improved on.[/quote]
I think the event was managed wonderfully. As others have said, if you missed it, you'll never have another chance at the inaugural AtomFest.
I've never been to anything like this before. I think everybody was so busy having fun doing whatever they enjoyed that they tended to ignore the schedule that Randy had set up, which led to some things being moved around. In particular, I remeber "Blue [intermediate] group - this is your 3rd call to the paddock. We only have one car out here." If people were having enough fun to miss a lapping session...
On the parts situation, we now have a much better feel for what can go wrong with our cars at a track event like this. I get the feeling that things like the exhaust flex issue will now be understood by Brammo to be an issue that affects many cars, rather than a one-off. Certainly, that's the impression I get from the pile of flex carcasses sitting next to the welding area in the shop. I gave away the parts I brought (ones I brought because I had experience with them failing - rod ends, exhaust gaskets and hardware, etc.).
I think the Stephens guys did an amazing job (assisted by the Ariel UK and Brammo folks) with a huge field of several dozen cars that they'd never worked on before. And others helped out and took time out from their track sessions - in particular, the exhaust work done by the performance shop from Texas (sorry, I'm too burnt out to remember their name - the guys w/ the stylized skull logo).
When we do this next, I'll ship or bring lots more parts.
I should also point out that Brammo sent down a number of large boxes of parts - a box each of A-arms (something like 3+ full sets), 2+ sets of suspension rods, at least a full set of uprights / hubs, etc. Additionally, a box of mufflers and exhaust components was sent but didn't make it due to some issue at UPS.
It's always useful to look back very soon after an event and think about what went right, and what could have been improved on.[/quote]
I think the event was managed wonderfully. As others have said, if you missed it, you'll never have another chance at the inaugural AtomFest.
I've never been to anything like this before. I think everybody was so busy having fun doing whatever they enjoyed that they tended to ignore the schedule that Randy had set up, which led to some things being moved around. In particular, I remeber "Blue [intermediate] group - this is your 3rd call to the paddock. We only have one car out here." If people were having enough fun to miss a lapping session...
On the parts situation, we now have a much better feel for what can go wrong with our cars at a track event like this. I get the feeling that things like the exhaust flex issue will now be understood by Brammo to be an issue that affects many cars, rather than a one-off. Certainly, that's the impression I get from the pile of flex carcasses sitting next to the welding area in the shop. I gave away the parts I brought (ones I brought because I had experience with them failing - rod ends, exhaust gaskets and hardware, etc.).
I think the Stephens guys did an amazing job (assisted by the Ariel UK and Brammo folks) with a huge field of several dozen cars that they'd never worked on before. And others helped out and took time out from their track sessions - in particular, the exhaust work done by the performance shop from Texas (sorry, I'm too burnt out to remember their name - the guys w/ the stylized skull logo).
When we do this next, I'll ship or bring lots more parts.
I should also point out that Brammo sent down a number of large boxes of parts - a box each of A-arms (something like 3+ full sets), 2+ sets of suspension rods, at least a full set of uprights / hubs, etc. Additionally, a box of mufflers and exhaust components was sent but didn't make it due to some issue at UPS.
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rfmarz@frontiernet
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
Tim, I really thank you for the laps you spent getting nauseated with me driving and the four or so laps you spent showing me th correct way to navigate the track! Your help for shinoo and spaz allowed them to be-- just plain fast! I, too would have liked to have more of a tutorial but, I have absoultely NO negative words for how AtomFest came off! I appreciate the instruction! Randy was splendid in his planning and execution!!!!!!
Fuel, as mentioned before, was an issue of sorts. I know that I about used Tom up, but the fact that he and Bill came in from Brammo was commendable. It might have been good for Brammo to send one of their engineers and a mechanic- for help and also learning (what didn't work- like the flex pipes
).
Probably a more coordinated time for us to accumulate together to put names, forum names and faces together would have been helpful- I guess AtomFest would've needed to be a week long to get it all in.
Fuel, as mentioned before, was an issue of sorts. I know that I about used Tom up, but the fact that he and Bill came in from Brammo was commendable. It might have been good for Brammo to send one of their engineers and a mechanic- for help and also learning (what didn't work- like the flex pipes
).Probably a more coordinated time for us to accumulate together to put names, forum names and faces together would have been helpful- I guess AtomFest would've needed to be a week long to get it all in.
Last edited by rfmarz@frontiernet on Mon Oct 22, 2007 8:25 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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silver
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
Since it is a What would you have done differently thread...
I would have brought spare fuel, with tanks, spare oil, spare gaskets, tools, a car cover, and a damn thank you card for every one who helped me out throughout the weekend.
Also, I would have brought a cot and slept in a locked garage like spaz did that was a clever idea.
I would have brought spare fuel, with tanks, spare oil, spare gaskets, tools, a car cover, and a damn thank you card for every one who helped me out throughout the weekend.
Also, I would have brought a cot and slept in a locked garage like spaz did that was a clever idea.
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Driver
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
Map to the Cruise in Tulsa so one wouldn't have to get lost on strange roads as some did. We went the wrong way when we left. Barely made it back withgas in the Atom. I had a lot of firsts this weekend, didn't want running out of fuel while driving to be one of them. It had already happened to me THREE TIMES as a passenger with other people! Other than that minor issue I have noticed no real areas that need substantial tweeks. I consider a map fine-tuning. Heck we even on the evening news as they filmed John Lloyd and myself arriving at Sonic and pulling in. 
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slowcharles
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
I would have actually made it down there 
I had a good reason for missing it but next year I will make it for sure.
I had a good reason for missing it but next year I will make it for sure.
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Wmcmanus
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
[quote="slowcharles"]
I would have actually made it down there
I had a good reason for missing it but next year I will make it for sure.
[/quote]
Me too. Nothing I could do about it in terms of scheduling, but it sucked to have to miss it.
Still wanted to thank Randy and everyone else who helped him to pull off the event. Thanks also to everyone who has shared their stories (except the ones about John Lloyd) and pics.
I would have actually made it down there
I had a good reason for missing it but next year I will make it for sure.
[/quote]
Me too. Nothing I could do about it in terms of scheduling, but it sucked to have to miss it.
Still wanted to thank Randy and everyone else who helped him to pull off the event. Thanks also to everyone who has shared their stories (except the ones about John Lloyd) and pics.
Last edited by Wmcmanus on Tue Oct 23, 2007 5:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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3Rotor
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
what did he do... ?
ok now since we have the cup.... next years will be held here... 99.9% guaranteed that the weather will be the best on the planet for it....
I Wish!!!!!!
nune the less, we are up to 2 Atoms( I think) and 2 Neo's here, so who knows...
ok now since we have the cup.... next years will be held here... 99.9% guaranteed that the weather will be the best on the planet for it....
I Wish!!!!!!
nune the less, we are up to 2 Atoms( I think) and 2 Neo's here, so who knows...
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Wmcmanus
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
[quote="DarthChicken"]Drove through Grant NM this morning when it was 20F outside (-6.7C). Now... there's cold, and then there's COLD! I had my helmet taped shut to keep the wind out, and had 3 layers on my legs and 4 on top to keep the cold at bay. [/quote]
July or August maybe?
I'm sure that having the extra planning time helped Randy a lot for this one, and the actual driving temps at the event itself were probably about perfect. But 20F doesn't happen in New Mexico in the summer, or is Grant in the mountains?
July or August maybe?
I'm sure that having the extra planning time helped Randy a lot for this one, and the actual driving temps at the event itself were probably about perfect. But 20F doesn't happen in New Mexico in the summer, or is Grant in the mountains?
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DarthChicken
Re: Atomfest - What would YOU have done differently?
Its up in the mountains. Summer is too hot - personally, I didn't get rained on/snowed on at all during my trip, except in Tulsa (and that was my own choice to drive in that weather).
What I'd do differently:
Class time in the evenings or early morning. Maybe setup classes so you had to pay for them, and part of the payment went towards your meal at the class.
I'm not so sure about paying $200 for each day. Thats more expensive than any track day in Oregon, and I know I for one wouldn't have come out (or would have flown out and not driven my car). I REALLY appreciated being able to drive 3 days on the track for $300 or so (the cost of the class).
What I'd do differently:
Class time in the evenings or early morning. Maybe setup classes so you had to pay for them, and part of the payment went towards your meal at the class.
I'm not so sure about paying $200 for each day. Thats more expensive than any track day in Oregon, and I know I for one wouldn't have come out (or would have flown out and not driven my car). I REALLY appreciated being able to drive 3 days on the track for $300 or so (the cost of the class).
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