Transmission help

[bolus]

I need some education on transmissions.  Recently I've been having some trouble with 3rd.  I have the paddle shifter so it has been a little difficult to diagnose but it should be the same shift cable action as using a regular shifter.  Changing from 2nd to 3rd or 4th to 3rd results in a loud crunch.  It only happens when the car is in motion.  Occasionally if Im shifting fast it grinds the gears in third after the crunch.  My first though is a synchro going out because these are the same symptoms the cobalt guys report with synchro problems.

But Darth and Tom suggested checking the shifter cables first. 

So I put the car in neural and the shifter box in neurtral and disconnected the cables and one of the shft cables was pulling the lever out of it's rest position. 

So can someone educate me on these levers?  which is the row and which is the column lever (if that's what they are called).  What position is third?  I have the cobalt manual but I'm having trouble finding any information about the levers. 

[img width=800 height=450]http://bolus.shackspace.com/atom/Shifte ... ligned.jpg[/img]

Second part question.  If this is a synchro going out I'm certainly not going to sell the car with it defective.  Actually this makes me want to keep it because now I have a winter project again (plus my girlfriend wants me to keep it too). 

So if I pull the transmission the last thing I want to do is simply repair it and put it back in.  So I think I need to get a true sequential transmission.  The problem is I dont think I can find anything to fit.  I spoke with autotech about a quaife 32G or 34G and talked to the guy that worked with GM and Brammo on trying to find a sequential transmission that GM was going to sell to Brammo as an options in our cars (I learned a lot of good history on that call).   Anyway,  they tried and tried and the quaife wont fit.

So I'm not down to Hewland
http://www.hewland.com/svga/productrange/egt.htm

Sedev (atom 500 tranny)
http://www.hansen-motorsport.se/kenneth ... %20ST90-14

Or an xtrax
www.xtrac.com

There are a few other companies but they start up $25000+

[Heywood-Yablowme]

My two cents worth: I would loose the paddle shifter. Cable shifters are just not suited for remote controls being controlled...remotely.Cables controlling cables..too much to ask of the system. Only my opinion...

Adjust the cables so the neutral position allows the cable ends (cup) to pop right on the balls,and you should be good to go...unless you have damaged the third gear synchro,which will require repair. The G35 is not a bad transaxle when properly adjusted and used within it's design limits. It is not,and never will be a tight,precise shifting unit with cables.

The post on the right in your pic is the gate shuttle (left to right access in the pattern, horizontally selecting 1-2 gate or 3-4 gate etc.)

The post on the left in your pic is gear select. (foreward-backward access to the shift pattern,vertical 1-2 etc.)

Glad to hear you may keep your baby.

[CalScot]

Iv'e had more tranny issues than anybody I know with an Atom. I know nothing about the GM tranny but I know way more about the Honda than anybody care's to ask.
I just put a new tranny in my car a few weeks ago.

I'd bet anything its the syncros that are worn. Classic symptoms but agree on checking the cables for proper adjustment first.

Here's my 2 cents worth, which is worth 0 cents BTW:
Repair the existing tranny with stock OEM or proven aftermarket upgraded gears and syncro's and forget it! When you rip those gears out in several thousand miles, replace/repair the exact same way. These exotic transmissions
cost a fortune, require extensive rework to get them to fit and leave you reliant on single suppliers that have you over a barrel. No need to elaborate on what they do to you when your bent over that barrel either!!

I love my "stock" tranny. It's cheap, it's simple to fix and I can fix it in a couple of hours (once it's out of the car that is)

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Bolus,if your photo is showing the at rest position of your shifter vs. transaxle at rest position,(everything in neutral,centered) you have a cable timing issue.

[bolus]

[quote="Curator"]
My two cents worth: I would loose the paddle shifter. Cable shifters are just not suited for remote controls being controlled...remotely.Cables controlling cables..too much to ask of the system. Only my opinion...

Adjust the cables so the neutral position allows the cable ends (cup) to pop right on the balls,and you should be good to go...unless you have damaged the third gear synchro,which will require repair. The G35 is not a bad transaxle when properly adjusted and used within it's design limits. It is not,and never will be a tight,precise shifting unit with cables.

The post on the right in your pic is the gate shuttle (left to right access in the pattern, horizontally selecting 1-2 gate or 3-4 gate etc.)

The post on the left in your pic is gear select. (foreward-backward access to the shift pattern,vertical 1-2 etc.)

Glad to hear you may keep your baby.
[/quote]

The paddle shifter was my poor man's sequential.  No way I could have added a true sequential in the middle of my "over-budget" build.  Plus Tom gave me a really good deal on it so he could make the kit available for others.    But now I kind of have a reason to look at a sequential and it lets me make the mental jump of a good reason to keep the car (project!)

But, when the paddles works, it works very well and I like it a ton.  

It really is too bad I cant fit a quaife 32G in there without frame modification.  Because there is one on ebay with no bids yet starting at $4200 and retail they go for ~$18000

anyone know where I can get a technical drawing with measurements on the F35?
[quote="CalScot"]
Iv'e had more tranny issues than anybody I know with an Atom. I know nothing about the GM tranny but I know way more about the Honda than anybody care's to ask.
I just put a new tranny in my car a few weeks ago.

I'd bet anything its the syncros that are worn. Classic symptoms but agree on checking the cables for proper adjustment first.

Here's my 2 cents worth, which is worth 0 cents BTW:
Repair the existing tranny with stock OEM or proven aftermarket upgraded gears and syncro's and forget it! When you rip those gears out in several thousand miles, replace/repair the exact same way. These exotic transmissions
cost a fortune, require extensive rework to get them to fit and leave you reliant on single suppliers that have you over a barrel. No need to elaborate on what they do to you when your bent over that barrel either!!

I love my "stock" tranny. It's cheap, it's simple to fix and I can fix it in a couple of hours (once it's out of the car that is

[/quote]


Yeah, I definitely know your history and that does make me hesitant.   If it is a synchro then it will happen again and I dont want to deal with pulling the engine out frequently.  (I gave away my engine lift anyway)   I also learned a lot about the F35 taking with the guy from autotech that helped develop it.  Like first gear only being rated for about 150 tq even though GM fails to mention that anywhere but still torque limited the Cobalts in first gear.  the 6 speed conversion fixes this but how boring adding another gear.  

what sequential box did you use?

[bolus]

[quote="Curator"]
Bolus,if your photo is showing the at rest position of your shifter vs. transaxle at rest position,(everything in neutral,centered) you have a cable timing issue.
[/quote]

So, if I adjust that cable to reach the rest position (it is definitely in neutral with the cable detached as per the pic) then that should fix everything right (assuming the box is doing the right sequence and moving the cables in the right direction)

[bolus]

Actually, the first thing I thought of when the tranny was having problems is making an AWD atom. 

Anyone know of a transverse AWD Tranny for a rear engine car?

[CalScot]

There's no free lunch. You start cranking big HP through any box and it's gonna cost you rebuilds. My quaife kit was several thousand and lasted a few hundred miles. Obviously something was not working and this is not a direct comparison to yours. All I can say is be careful who you listen to and if they are not going to back up their advice and work, then take it with a pinch of salt.

I replaced my gearbox with OEM stock Honda replacement parts. They lasted 14K miles on my car getting the snot beaten out of them and that's good enough for me. I tried the Quaife, investigated CPL's new dog gear kit long before they even put it on the market and PPG's and at one point, even commisioned a guy to custom build me one and that fell through as he was not able to pull it off. I talked to drag racers, road racers and anybody even remotely interested in talking about transmissions. Afte it's all said & done, unless you want to spend 20K+ to redesign and fit in a full blown high end sequential box, I would stick with what you have because those high end units won't last any longer IMHO. Also, you will never get the return on investment either. You will end up dumping way more money in your car than you can ever sell it for.

I just looked at a Hewland box in a race car yesterday. Undo 6 bolt and take the end cap off. All the gears drop out and can be changed in minutes. $120 a gear. Voila, new gearbox in a flash. If you only had such a design in the Atom it would be great.

[bolus]

well, Im torn.  I cant really enjoy driving the car much.  I feel stupid keeping it in the garage and never driving it.   Makes me want to ask Rally if they have a "zero" milage insurance policy.   ::)

I really want some sort of project so if I sold the car it would be to get money for a kit car or something like that (Turns out Tom is in the process of designing a kit car right now...hmmmm)    If I got a kit car it would be even more loss of money. 

So if I try and put a sequential tranny in it, it would be for the pure process of just trying to do it.  Yeah it would be a huge waist of money but no more of a waste of money as a vacation.  you cant sell you memories once you get back.  but it gives me a reason to keep the car

[CalScot]

[quote="bolus"]
well, Im torn.  I cant really enjoy driving the car much.  I feel stupid keeping it in the garage and never driving it.   Makes me want to ask Rally if they have a "zero" milage insurance policy.   ::)

I really want some sort of project so if I sold the car it would be to get money for a kit car or something like that (Turns out Tom is in the process of designing a kit car right now...hmmmm)    If I got a kit car it would be even more loss of money. 

So if I try and put a sequential tranny in it, it would be for the pure process of just trying to do it.  Yeah it would be a huge waist of money but no more of a waste of money as a vacation.  you cant sell you memories once you get back.  but it gives me a reason to keep the car


[/quote]

Not knocking what you want to do and I understand the dilema. I too have the desire to keep "doing stuff". It's not an issue of return for sure. I just like making it go faster. One "plan" I still have mulling away in the background is a project for a full body shell for the car. Something in 2 or 3 pieces that fits on in an hour or less. It would have built in lights and be very well done. Still open cockpit but full aero otherwise. Like a change of clothes. Saturday an Atom, next day a custom GT race car:) Monday an Atom again. For me, it would be pretty track focused to explore the limitations of the chassis with a body but still street legal. Not sure if I will get to it any time soon as I am busy with other dastardly plans...

[Driver]

[quote="CalScot"]
... as I am busy with other dastardly plans... [/quote]

Uh oh... 

[positron]

Mr. "try the cheap stuff first" here...
Definitely neutral should be at rest position but your about due to fail the roll pin in the arm with the big ass counterweight. The first time mine failed it deformed enough to get things out of time. But I don't want to be the one to stop a big gnarly expensive project...so long as you post your progress..

If this is not it.. you got what you paid for.. if it is.. I take payment in Black Butte Porter from Bend. 

Big ass counterweight = gear fore/aft

other one = range L/R

[bolus]

Well, adjusting the shift cable was not the solution since that messed up the pattern and it could not shift into several gears when I did that.

I'll need to find how what the box is doing when shifting so that means going out and buying a USB to serial port adapter. 

I still need to figure out exactly where the levers should be in each gear.  The one on the right (gate shuttle) seems to have 4 positions.  N-1-2, 3-4, 5, R and the Gear select has 2 positions.  The gate select is spring loaded so when not connected to the shift cable, sits in the 3-4 position (I think) rather than neutral.   

Bah this is confusing,  will be talking with Tom tomorrow. 

Well, At least I know how to get the seats off and that you only have to disconnect the belts at the top to get the seat out. 
[quote="Positron"]

Definitely neutral should be at rest position but your about due to fail the roll pin in the arm with the big ass counterweight. The first time mine failed it deformed enough to get things out of time. But I don't want to be the one to stop a big gnarly expensive project...so long as you post your progress..

[/quote]

How can I tell on that pin?  it seems to move just fine?

 

[positron]

Drift it out or at least about half way out so you can persuade back in, inspect, replace, if ok then no harm no foul.. best way to drift out is with another roll pin, which you should carry some anyway..

you know.. your right.. I was trying to watch and shift and doing neither well.. 3-4 is small lever at rest ie 3-4 is pretty much no side to side. 5th is small lever some outboard and R is alot outboard so 1-2 would be inboard.

But I could see that if you had the small lever not where it should be it'd do weird things.. still confused on what's changed..

[bolus]

I think I found the position information.  More tinkering tomorrow.  we have the MU3 transaxle right?