BRAKES: Standard - Competition

[Alec]

There's been a couple of threads mentioning the different brake options lately without clarifying the situation.

The Titanium Brake Shims thread resulted in some confusion with regard to pad shapes so I was wondering what the actual differences were between the two different brake options, especially as I've been looking closely at my own recently.

The front shims were made following those shown on the EBC site for the Atom which are these pads . . . .



Front pads                                                                                             Rear pads
 

. . . . but as far as I know, no-one has admitted to having this shape for the front brakes of their Atom so, are these the brake pads for the standard brake option?

They are the ones that were fitted to the MGF, with the exception of the 160bhp 1,8 i VVC which had a 304mm front disc with these pads . . . .


 

---

With regard to the Competition Brake option, the only reference seems to be this description from Ross . . . .

[quote="Ross McWilliam"]
Hi Ben, I might be wrong here, but I think the competition set-up on the Atom 2 is simply ventilated discs and better pads.  You might want to dig back and find the thread I posted with photos of me swapping my brake pads.  No idea if they fit on the front or not, but I'd hazard a guess that they probably do.

Found it:-
http://forum.atomclub.com/index.php/topic,5982.0.html

Apologies if this info is wrong though!

Cheers, Ross.
[/quote]

As all the front discs seem to be ventilated discs with a solid disc on the rear (with the exception of the Alcons, I think, which has the same ventilated disc set-up for front and rear) I'm assuming that Ross means a slotted disc.

Is the Competition Brake option as Ross says then, replacement of the plain discs with slotted discs and an uprated compound brake pad?

If this is so then it must be the uprated pad that will make the most improvement as from what I have read, the slotted disc is only to aid cooling. As the Atom doesn't get the brakes very hot anyway then slotted discs will not be as much of an advantage as it might have been on a normal heavier car, in fact, standard plain discs with uprated pads might be a better option.

Can anyone confirm what I am asking with regard to standard brakes and competition brakes along with my understanding about plain and slotted discs?

---

Note: This will probably only apply to the Atom and Atom 2, which I think used the original MGF single piston calipers, as the Atom 3 now specifies a different set-up as standard and the upgrade options are now called Sport Brakes so could be completely different.

[quote="arielmotor.co.uk"]
Front
240mm ventilated disc, twin piston calliper

Rear
240mm solid disc, twin piston calliper

Options
Sport brake package front
Sport brake package rear
[/quote]

[benyeats]

[quote="Alec"]
They are the ones that were fitted to the MGF, with the exception of the 160bhp 1,8 i VVC which had a 304mm front disc with these pads . . . .
[/quote]

The 160BHP MGF used AP 4 pot callipers with the larger disks, although they have MG embossed on the casting.  These are my next planned upgrade to the car when I get round to it.  Should fit all Atoms and Atom 2.

Ben

[NathanE]

Those front pads (with the single retaining bolt hole at the top) look like the ones that I had on my mk2 car (John H's) which had standard brakes.  

The standard discs that the front was fitted with were definately undrilled.  I can't remember for certain if they were vented or not, but my gut feeling is that they were not, i.e. they were just solid undrilled discs.  

The set up with oem pads was ok, but when I replaced the pads with mintex 1144s the improvement was startling.  I know that John subsequently went back to oem pads during a factory service and found them so poor in comparison to the previous (mintex) set up that he ditched the brand new oems and went back (again) to the mintex.

I found the standard set up worked really well, although I specc'd aars for my new car because 1) I like a "firmer" pedal feel than the standard set up which had lots of pedal travel and 2) they look good.  I don't really think that the braking performance is that different to be perfectly honest, but that claim needs data log evidence to back it up.  

My conclusion, the stardard set up worked just fine, and the pads made more of a difference than anything else to the performance.  [quote="benyeats"]
[quote="Alec"]
They are the ones that were fitted to the MGF, with the exception of the 160bhp 1,8 i VVC which had a 304mm front disc with these pads . . . .
[/quote]

The 160BHP MGF used AP 4 pot callipers with the larger disks, although they have MG embossed on the casting.  These are my next planned upgrade to the car when I get round to it.  Should fit all Atoms and Atom 2.

Ben
[/quote]

[ross]

[quote="Alec"]
As all the front discs seem to be ventilated discs with a solid disc on the rear (with the exception of the Alcons, I think, which has the same ventilated disc set-up for front and rear) I'm assuming that Ross means a slotted disc.

Is the Competition Brake option as Ross says then, replacement of the plain discs with slotted discs and an uprated compound brake pad?
[/quote]

Thanks Alec, that's correct, I should have said slotted rather than ventilated.

Cheers, Ross.

[John H]

[quote="Mr.Toad"]
Those front pads (with the single retaining bolt hole at the top) look like the ones that I had on my mk2 car (John H's) which had standard brakes.  

The standard discs that the front was fitted with were definately undrilled.  I can't remember for certain if they were vented or not, but my gut feeling is that they were not, i.e. they were just solid undrilled discs.  

The set up with oem pads was ok, but when I replaced the pads with mintex 1144s the improvement was startling.  I know that John subsequently went back to oem pads during a factory service and found them so poor in comparison to the previous (mintex) set up that he ditched the brand new oems and went back (again) to the mintex.

I found the standard set up worked really well, although I specc'd aars for my new car because 1) I like a "firmer" pedal feel than the standard set up which had lots of pedal travel and 2) they look good.  I don't really think that the braking performance is that different to be perfectly honest, but that claim needs data log evidence to back it up.  

My conclusion, the stardard set up worked just fine, and the pads made more of a difference than anything else to the performance.  [quote="benyeats"]
[quote="Alec"]
They are the ones that were fitted to the MGF, with the exception of the 160bhp 1,8 i VVC which had a 304mm front disc with these pads . . . .
[/quote]

The 160BHP MGF used AP 4 pot callipers with the larger disks, although they have MG embossed on the casting.  These are my next planned upgrade to the car when I get round to it.  Should fit all Atoms and Atom 2.

Ben
[/quote]
[/quote]
Nathan, you are right that the discs on my 220 are indeed solid and not vented. It does annoy me that you have less feel with them than with the alcons, but I don't think it makes a huge difference either.
When I took Hedge's 245 round Bedford I was surprised how similar it was to mine.....no discernible difference in power, handling or stopping. In fact it only seems different at low revs when you can notice how much smoother the hondata ecu makes it, in comparison to the 3 bits of wire, a coke can and something that looks like part of  washing machine (and probably is) that the 220 has. Much nicer to drive at low revs.......the 220 splutters and farts like mad below 3000 rpm, though I don't recall it doing that when I first got it, but despite numerous trips to the factory since, they have found nothing wrong with it.
I ain't convinced though and hope to get to the bottom of it eventually.

[Alec]

[quote="John H"]
Nathan, you are right that the discs on my 220 are indeed solid and not vented. It does annoy me that you have less feel with them than with the alcons, but I don't think it makes a huge difference either.
[/quote]

John, are they the same diameter front and rear (240mm) and are they plain or slotted like Ross posted for his rear brakes?



It surprises me that the front disc isn't vented if, as Nathan says, they use the '817' pads shown in my first post because the caliper that takes them (if it's the MGF one) is for a 22mm thick disc, unlike the rear caliper which is for a 10mm thick solid disc.

[Alec]

Oh and by the way John, you mentioned this on another thread . . . .

[quote="John H"]
Taking mine to the factory beforehand to get corner weights sorted and hopefully some brakes that work.
[/quote]

. . . . so what exactly are you having done to hopefully get some brakes that work?