Car and Driver Feb 2010 comparison

[silver]

Bob....Max is running 15" (or there abouts)wide wheels / tires on the back...LMAO.

but others on here have mentioned there's not enough weight in the atom to heat up the rears to operating temps.....Max could probably give you a better understanding on what he's seen since he would know better then I...just letting you know he's already gone where you're planning to go.

[BobR]

That's great news. I'm glad Max is the pioneer. We will follow in his footsteps. Heat is a problem but it is a problem with the 225 tires too and the lack of negative cambere means we are using only part of the tire in hard cornering.  Outer edge wear is a problem too!

[dp35]

Bob,
As you know, I have 275 Hoosier A6 tires on the rear of my Atom, and they have worked well, with good tire temps.  I have no problem with adequate camber, and I take tire temp & pressure readings regularly.  If it were me, I would not take on the big job of anti-roll bars before trying the tire upgrade first. 

Whatever you choose to do to your Atom, please share it with us here. 

Although my car was improved by the larger & softer rear tires, I have no doubt that on the same tires but with a better driver, it could outperform the magazine test driver.

[Heywood-Yablowme]

It has taken me two+ years to get my Atom to the point where we are contenders for FTD at events.   It really was not one thing alone that made this happen. It has been an accumulation of many changes..equipment,more testing,adapting and evolving my driving style and the Atoms running gear into a balanced unit. It continues to develop every day.

My Hoosier R25B compound Formula Atlantic tires work better for me than anything else I have tried.     However,I have also changed a few things on the chassis to take full advantage of the extra grip they offer.

To sum it up...My bone stock Atom2 was scary to drive on the stock tires. They were not suited for the task that I expected the car to do:  help me..drive fast and..

                                                   WIN.    

                                                                     

     The Ariel Atom is the greatest sports car built today.   

     If you do not believe in your equipment,you don't stand a chance at success.


GRIP IT AND RIP IT!

        hehehe...

      

[MoPho]

Apologies for rehashing this. I met CalScott and Nick (don't know his username) today and had a fabulous time chasing them through the canyons ( I have a Caterham R400). This topic came up at lunch since I do some freelance photography for C/D and while I did not work on this particular test, I have worked on quite a few, including a Brammo Atom track test a few years ago.

MadMaxAtom, I find it interesting how throughout the thread you are doing the whole "ultimate fanboy" chest thumping and armchair quarterbacking, insulting C/D and the driver, then in your last post you admit that it took you two plus years to dial in the car and adapt your driving style to become fast and that your stock car was scary.
So I ask you this, how do you expect the magazine tester to do what took you 2+ years in only 5-10 laps? With 25 or so cars to test in such a short amount of time, the driver had no time to adapt to the car (and no time to make adjustments to the car- cars are generally tested as delivered BTW, so any set up issues is the responsibility of the manufacturer). But the situation is the same for all the cars, so if a car is difficult to extract ultimate fast times without a lot of seat time or set up, that is a fundamental "flaw" (depending on perspective) in the design that will never let it excel in these types of magazine tests.

Personally, I don't care much about lap times, what is far more important is how fun the car is to drive and in my experience the cars that are easy to get in and go fast are generally not all that fun.
Oversteer is more fun than lap times anyway.


[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
            70's formula car...HA!.Like any of them EVER drove a 70's formula car.....
[/quote]


Well actually, Gillies has driven 60's and 70s formula cars (he owns one or two I believe) and he has also driven a modern formula one car. He is a fairly accomplished vintage racer and is quite fast. So perhaps you shouldn't be so hasty to jump to conclusions. Is he the fastest, bestest driver there ever was, of course not. Could he go faster with more time in the car, no doubt, but the same could also be said for all the cars in the test


Cheers.

PS, I am not speaking on behalf of the magazine, just putting fourth my own opinion based on experience

[CalScot]

[quote="MoPho"]
Apologies for rehashing this. I met CalScott and Nick (don't know his username) today and had a fabulous time chasing them through the canyons ( I have a Caterham R400). This topic came up at lunch since I do some freelance photography for C/D and while I did not work on this particular test, I have worked on quite a few, including a Brammo Atom track test a few years ago.

MadMaxAtom, I find it interesting how throughout the thread you are doing the whole "ultimate fanboy" chest thumping and armchair quarterbacking, insulting C/D and the driver, then in your last post you admit that it took you two plus years to dial in the car and adapt your driving style to become fast and that your stock car was scary.
So I ask you this, how do you expect the magazine tester to do what took you 2+ years in only 5-10 laps? With 25 or so cars to test in such a short amount of time, the driver had no time to adapt to the car (and no time to make adjustments to the car- cars are generally tested as delivered BTW, so any set up issues is the responsibility of the manufacturer). But the situation is the same for all the cars, so if a car is difficult to extract ultimate fast times without a lot of seat time or set up, that is a fundamental "flaw" (depending on perspective) in the design that will never let it excel in these types of magazine tests.

Personally, I don't care much about lap times, what is far more important is how fun the car is to drive and in my experience the cars that are easy to get in and go fast are generally not all that fun.
Oversteer is more fun than lap times anyway.


[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
            70's formula car...HA!.Like any of them EVER drove a 70's formula car.....
[/quote]


Well actually, Gillies has driven 60's and 70s formula cars (he owns one or two I believe) and he has also driven a modern formula one car. He is a fairly accomplished vintage racer and is quite fast. So perhaps you shouldn't be so hasty to jump to conclusions. Is he the fastest, bestest driver there ever was, of course not. Could he go faster with more time in the car, no doubt, but the same could also be said for all the cars in the test


Cheers.

PS, I am not speaking on behalf of the magazine, just putting fourth my own opinion based on experience



[/quote]

MoPho

Great day today. Really enjoyed the drive and the company.

You can't really blame the Atom owners for being passionate and defensive about their Atoms. It is the "Atom Forum" after all 

I doubt an Xbow would have had much of a chance today....don't you agree? 

[MoPho]

[quote="CalScot"]

MoPho

Great day today. Really enjoyed the drive and the company.

You can't really blame the Atom owners for being passionate and defensive about their Atoms. It is the "Atom Forum" after all 

I doubt an Xbow would have had much of a chance today....don't you agree? 




[/quote]


Yeah that was really awesome today. Hope we can do it again soon, even though I don't stand a chance of keeping up with your insane machine (heck, my car scares me enough, I can't even imagine what yours is like )

[Heywood-Yablowme]

Some cars are easier to drive  than others. If you do not wish to take the time to learn to operate any of them properly, you will always fear them. Such was the case with the C&D drivers.They said the car scared them and I am sure it did;their lap times prove it.The test only shows their shortcomings,not the Atoms.

My Atom excites me,and I have never  been fearful of the car.Respectful,certainly. It demands respect, and there is a learning curve.
If you are not able to overcome your fear,you will never drive your car to its potential. 
Like many sports, anyone can play the games..but few can excell.

Mofo,you have chosen oversteer and a lack of car control over learning to drive properly.  It is a good thing you do not care about lap times.

Don't feel bad,I am a terrible photographer.  One must know their limitations.

[Bruce Fielding]

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
...One must know their limitations.
[/quote]

I believe it should be expressed like this...

[MoPho]

My Atom excites me,and I have never  been fearful of the car.

To sum it up...My bone stock Atom2 was scary to drive on the stock tires.

Your words chief

Some cars are easier to drive  than others. If you do not wish to take the time to learn to operate any of them properly, you will always fear them. Such was the case with the C&D drivers.They said the car scared them and I am sure it did;their lap times prove it.The test only shows their shortcomings,not the Atoms.

Again, I ask you how much time do you think they had to learn the car? Did you miss the part about having 25 other cars to test and learn too?  

Perhaps TMI should have lent them the car for two years before the test so they could become proficient enough to satisfy "experts" like yourself. Or maybe it would only take one year and you're just a slow learner

You have chosen oversteer and a lack lack of control over learning to drive properly.

Wow!  :doh: Last time I checked, knowing how to handle oversteer is car control, but thanks for insulting me and assuming you know anything about my driving  :td:

I guess every forum has its resident tool, no point in trying to reason with someone who only hears what he wants to hear  ::)

See you later

[dp35]

[quote="MoPho"]
Yeah that was really awesome today. Hope we can do it again soon, even though I don't stand a chance of keeping up with your insane machine (heck, my car scares me enough, I can't even imagine what yours is like )[/quote]

Many of us use these sorts of words to describe how we respect our car's abilities.  I don't think they're typically meant to say "my car sucks". 

I might not agree with MadMax about everything, but on this topic I think I do.  I'm another person that took a couple years to get up to speed in the Atom.  The reason for that was that I'm a pure amatuer, and it took time for me to adjust to the speed & capability of the car.  Also, being a hobbyist, I only got to drive on tracks a handfull of times per year. 

A magazine test driver is supposed to be a professional, capable of quickly achieving any car's max capability.  If that person needs as much time as it took me to learn the car, then he's no more of a pro driver than I was when I got the Atom, and should not be offerring his opinions in a (formerly) respected magazine.  I'm sure a real pro driver could jump in my Atom and post laps faster than mine within a few laps, in his first session in the car.  I'm also sure that I could drive an Atom faster than C&D's "pro" driver.

The only thing this magazine test proved was that their driver was not qualified to give an opinion about any car that takes him out of his comfort zone.  Fast cars tend to do that, especially when they have open cockpits, and no ABS, traction control, stability management, or other safety nets that so many drivers are relying on these days.

[Heywood-Yablowme]

You were the one who proclaimed the preference for oversteer,Mofo. You backed the statement up by saying lap times mean nothing.

Therefore,the only conclusion I can logically draw from this is you prefer an out of control car to one in control. Seems pretty straightforeward to me...

If you would ever like to test your skills in a safe,organized, time trial style competition on track,I would welcome you to join us for some real car fun!. I will be at various tracks this year and a schedule is posted here...http://comscc.org/events/   You will learn that oversteer is not car control.

Please do not be insulted when they send you out with an instructor.Take advantage of the time to learn the fast way around a course and maybe you will appreciate your car better and not fear it as much.

..or not.      Every forum has it's share of drop in trolls as well...

[MoPho]

Many of us use these sorts of words to describe how we respect our car's abilities.  I don't think they're typically meant to say "my car sucks". 

Ok, but where did anyone suggest that by being scary it sucks? Is when you say it's scary and a journalists says it's scary two different meanings now?

I might not agree with MadMax about everything, but on this topic I think I do.  I'm another person that took a couple years to get up to speed in the Atom.  The reason for that was that I'm a pure amatuer, and it took time for me to adjust to the speed & capability of the car.  Also, being a hobbyist, I only got to drive on tracks a handfull of times per year. 

Yeah, and those handful of times per year are all in the same car, the tester got a handful of laps, plus had to adapt to all the other cars and on a track that they only use once a year

A magazine test driver is supposed to be a professional, capable of quickly achieving any car's max capability.  If that person needs as much time as it took me to learn the car, then he's no more of a pro driver than I was when I got the Atom, and should not be offerring his opinions in a (formerly) respected magazine.  I'm sure a real pro driver could jump in my Atom and post laps faster than mine within a few laps, in his first session in the car.  I'm also sure that I could drive an Atom faster than C&D's "pro" driver.

First off, the magazines never claims any of the writers are the ultimate in pro drivers

Second, a "real pro" driver may be able to jump in and turn a faster lap than you can, but that pro would also be able to turn faster laps in all the other cars too, so it wouldn't likely change the results, only move the bar.
What you are suggesting is that they hire someone who can drive in a way that will mask the issues with the car, it wouldn't tell us anything about the car, just make you feel better about your purchase.
IMO, what a pro driver can do in a car has little relevance to what the car will be like for me to drive

And last, other magazines have brought in real pro drivers and people on forums still whine about how they can turn a faster lap in their car, and try and discredit the driver, etc., it really doesn't change much. As a matter of fact, I once worked on a track test with C/D and another magazine did a test with some of the same cars, on the same track, but with a pro driver and he wasn't really any faster than the C/D driver, on one of the cars he was slower.

The only thing this magazine test proved was that their driver was not qualified to give an opinion about any car that takes him out of his comfort zone.  Fast cars tend to do that, especially when they have open cockpits, and no ABS, traction control, stability management, or other safety nets that so many drivers are relying on these days.

I disagree, what the test proved is that the Atom is not an easy car to just jump in and go flat out (neither is my car), you guys confirm that. Nothing it says in the article isn't true and they praised how much fun the car is.
What this thread proves is that you are so blinded by your bias that you are unwilling to accept the truth, it's the same kind of nonsense on every car brand forum, people get all butthurt when their car doesn't win. As a matter of fact, didn't I have this same exact discussion with you over on the lotus forum?

And as I mentioned, the driver vintage races open cockpit vintage formula cars, he is well versed in driving cars without nannies, so stop making the assumption that he was out of his comfort zone because the Atom doesn't haven such things

[nickpoore]

Hey Guys.

I think that MoPho's point about cars is that cars that are "easy" to drive (such as a GTR) are great to jump in and post a fast lap time, but that ultimately they are not as much fun.
Some of these cars are just plain boring, as you are just pointing the car in the right direction - it's the car's computers that are deciding how fast to go, etc.

I too was disapointed with the Atom's performance in the C&D article, but the very interesting point is how many cars they really have to test in one or two days, and they simply don't have enough time to set up anything.  Basically they test them as they are delivered from the factory.

MoPho did not say that he didn't care about lap times - he simply said that he had more fun driving cars.
Others have posted that "wet track days are more fun" as they get to slide the car around the course - obvioulsy the times are slower, but they had more FUN.

It was great to go for a drive with MoPho yesterday, and have lunch and talk about cars (and other topics that are best not discussed here...)
He's a great car guy, and had an interesting perspective of Car & Driver reviews - having been there.

He also did a great job keeping up with us, even if we did have an unfair advantage (like our better looks!)

[MoPho]

[quote="MadMaxAtom and company"]
You were the one who proclaimed the preference for oversteer,Mofo. You backed the statement up by saying lap times mean nothing.

Therefore,the only conclusion I can logically draw from this is you prefer an out of control car to one in control. Seems pretty straightforeward to me...


[/quote]

MaxiPad ( I can intentionally change your name too )

You must not be familiar with Rally then, oversteer doesn't mean out of control and Rally is real car control, not following some boring line repetitively around a track

And lap times only matter when racing, last time I checked, a track day is not a race. I prefer to enjoy the experience, I am not out to be faster than anyone else or prove who has the bigger pecker

Yup, I am a troll, here to wind you up, you fell for it hook line and sinker  :wize:


BTW, I love the Atom, so don't take my posts as being negative about the car, I am just trying to provide a different perspective
I've had the good fortune of driving many exotics and nothing street legal and stock is as exciting or fun to drive as the Atom or Caterham, nothing!