Minefield

[autobackup]

Hamtt

Just to correct you a touche my particular Atom was completely stripped down to the chassis and has been entirely rebuilt/upgraded by the factory (January-June 2018) to the FULL 3.5R spec INCLUDING all the chassis stiffening and and during the process was dipped & stripped and then re-powdercoated with the latest darker gunmetal.

It is a full blown 3.5R to the latest 3.5R spec completed just as the 3 series was being discontinued about 5 months just before the Atom 4 was launched!

[hamtt]

Hamtt

Just to correct you a touche my particular Atom was completely stripped down to the chassis and has been entirely rebuilt/upgraded by the factory (January-June 2018) to the FULL 3.5R spec INCLUDING all the chassis stiffening and and during the process was dipped & stripped and then re-powdercoated with the latest darker gunmetal.

It is a full blown 3.5R to the latest 3.5R spec completed just as the 3 series was being discontinued about 5 months just before the Atom 4 was launched!

I'm sure there will be the odd one with enthusiastic owners that have had all or most of the work done.

I was just trying to make a point that because a 3 may look like a 3.5 doesn't mean it is a 3.5 and not very many people would have spent the money to have all the changes required, and if they did then on resale they'll probably be asking a price that reflects this.

I doubt if the op will be able to pick up a 3 at a bargain price that is a 3.5 in all but name.

[autobackup]

Actually, on reflection, I think that my K20Z4 engined 3.5R may possibly be one of the last K20 powered Atom 3.5R ever built as the only other Rs being produced at that time were K24 powered (e.g. Sir Nick's) as Ariel had run out of K20 engines?

[Anon]

I think what happened was Ariel switched to the K24 engine for the Atom when the Nomad was released, then went back to the K20 until they ran out. If my bad memory serves me correctly. I remember talking to the factory about this when I put an order in for a 3.5.

[Karl V]

Then found 5 more K20s for the Nomad Rs...

It's true when they say no two cars are alike

[SvenTheHammer]

The cost to upgrade a 3 to 3.5 won't be worth it and it'll still not be a 'real' 3.5 as the log book will say 3 so it'll always be considered a 3 with upgrades when anyone with any knowledge of atoms is buying it in the future. Best just get a 3.5 from the outset.

Indeed, but lots have had 3.5 upgrades and they tend to be cheaper, so the bang for the buck is very good.

Ultimately a 3 with the 3.5 upgrades drives the same as a 3.5.

Sent from my ELE-L09 using Tapatalk

They may look the same but they won't drive the same.

The most common 3.5 upgrades people did to the 3's were visual upgrades to make it look like a 3.5, such as the lights and the dash.

No one would have upgraded the chassis. The 3.5 chassis has extrq stiffening in it and I doubt anyone welded on extra bits and re-powdercoated their 3 chassis.

The early 3 ecu map made th car very twitchy, the supercharger was not progressive and a lot of the 2 owners that upgraded to 3's struggled with it. The 2 was cable throttke and 3 was fly by wire. Over the years the map was refined to make the car more controllable and predictable, and the 3.5 map was the final word. Most of the 3's will have their original maps. A few people upgraded their maps here and there but I beleive most didn't.

The steering rack was upgraded on the 3.5, again a few people had the upgrades done but not many.

There are other subtle differences too that will exist between an upgraded 3 and a 3.5.

Oh, and some 3.5 cars have a k24 engine. I

I'm any event the factory will be able to tell you if a particular car had had the non-visible upgrades done to it, but you'll still be missing the stiffer chassis.

Mostly I’d agree that most people won’t have had the chassis upgrade. My pal Tom did, after someone accidentally drove into the rear of his car at Brands Hatch a couple of years ago(not on track). As the car had to be stripped down to the bare chassis to be repaired(costing well over £20k+ On his insurance) Steve asked if he wanted the extra chassis bar welding on for an extra £800. He paid for that, and had the chassis resprayed white to make it look like a new car.
He’s not selling his, but he will be able to advertise it as a proper 3.5 when he eventually does.

[Ja5on]

Ill be keeping an eye out and making some phone calls after this trip offshore.

Granted the covid thing makes car viewings etc a bit tricky

[cvjoint]

The 3.5 chassis with K20 would be the one to go with, if within budget. I think it's the best one ever build. Then it would be easy to add sidepods, supercharger, Ohlins, whatever to get it up to the spec you want.

[Ja5on]

Ok, so just to get it straight.

If can get hold of a car with a K20 it would be preferable to a K24...?

[hamtt]

Personal choice, the k24 doesn't rev as high but there's quite a few deep discussions on here when it came out, have a search through the forums.

In all honesty you're not really going to have anything to complain about with either engine as long as the rest of the car is right.

[cvjoint]

Ok, so just to get it straight.

If can get hold of a car with a K20 it would be preferable to a K24...?

I'm sure you will find people on both sides. That said...

The K24Z7 produced recently have the headifold design and VTEC only on the intake valve. Both of those mean the head doesn't flow as well. Whatever you win via extra displacement you lose with the head design. Atoms generally have freer flowing intake/header/exhaust than the Honda cars these engines were built for and the higher flowing heads shine with modifications like these. I know in the SRA racing series the Atoms with K20 were typically believed to be faster than the ones with K24 even though they were "SPEC" cars. My K24z7 Atom dynoed at only 190whp but K20 cars with similar modifications (no cat, race exhaust with 2.75" pipes, aftermarket intake/filter) easily dyno over 200whp. Then there is the noise, the K20 revs a lot higher.

I would prefer a K20 to a K24 (headifold version) even if it was a pedestrian K20Z4, but the Atoms sometimes got the even better K20a from the Civic Type R with all sorts of improvements.

[Fastlane]

Ok, so just to get it straight.

If can get hold of a car with a K20 it would be preferable to a K24...?

Yes, and I doubt you'll get a K24-engined Atom for £40k, as only the latest cars had these fitted. If your max budget is £40k then a car that has visited the factory each year will have had a steady stream of expenditure to keep it in top condition and probably had quite a lot of upgrades added to it - as a result it will be more expensive to buy but cheaper to maintain and will hold its value better.

In terms of pricing, generally there are fewer for sale in Autumn and Winter but the prices are generally lower. In broad terms, for a factory-maintained car:

£30k will get you a lower spec, higher mileage 3 (30k+ miles) or a lower mileage 2
£35k will get you a higher spec/upgraded 3 (Alcons, adjustable Bilsteins, Dymags, 310 remap, 3.5 steering upgrade, factory towing eyes, factory wings, Tillett seats are all very desirable)
£40k is really the bottom price for a lower spec 3.5 & top price for a low mileage, top spec 3
£45k is a low mileage, good spec 3.5

As suggested, with any potential purchase, before you even go to see it, ring the factory with the reg. no.

Good luck.

[Ja5on]

Cheers [mention]Fastlane[/mention]

Thing I have noticed is some cars seen to sell pretty quickly and others sit around for while. Granted that happens with a lot of cars.

[Fastlane]

Cheers @Fastlane

Thing I have noticed is some cars seen to sell pretty quickly and others sit around for while. Granted that happens with a lot of cars.

There are quite a few Atoms out there with "stories" that are not obvious from the advert, hence needing to check with the factory/do your homework. If you haven't already, read this thread for examples viewtopic.php?f=1&t=17280

[cvjoint]

3.5 steering upgrade

Any more info on this steering update?

My steering is a bit lazy with initial input, if this is fixed in later models that would be super!