Track day timing

[Italianpaul]

Interesting article relating to track day timing and Insurance Company concerns.

Posted on Track Time.

[phil4]

Sorry, but we can't see that, "privacy" settings of the poster.

[Italianpaul]

Just a quick point : Timing on a track day : The other day there was a Zoom meeting between several tdo's / Circuit operators / Insurance Companies / MotorsportUk and others. It covered many areas regarding track days including travel abroad, circuit availability the state of the market and what 2021 will look like track day wise. One of the Interesting points raised was Timing on a track day. Since technology has moved faster than the Insurance companies on this there is of course a lag in them catching up with various things.
Like Mobile phone app timing / In built cameras and general timing. Gone are the day when there was someone stood on the pit wall with a lap top timing a car / Most drivers now have their phone mounted giving them a instant read out, which then of course puts them under pressure to perform . You may say it does not but why else time except to measure either your performance or that of your car.
Over the last 90 days we ( Opentrack ) have had more car on car contact than we have in the last 11 years so you have to ask why and the insurance companies will also be asking and looking.
Is it everyone is excited to be back out after Lockdown, maybe or is it the rise of social media posting video's with times etc or Youtube videos titled "Caterham V Aton" at Brands Hatch ? Then you log on to see Two cars battling it out on a track day.
There will come a point I am sure when a driver puts in a blame for a damaged car and the Insurance company will not pay out as all they need to do it look through Social Media and find a video on that event of timing and it will void any drivers policy on that day.
It also technically invalidates the Track Day Operators PLI insurance, and if a Insurance company want to drag out a claim I am sure they will. Many drivers do not bother with insurance, but spare a thought for the ones that do. Yes people say don't take it on track unless you can afford to bend it, but is that the right attitude to have towards fellow petrol heads all out for a good time.
So I am sure some will just tell me to Fuk off. But Imagine if it is you that has accident and you were left paralysed. You then went to claim on your track day insurance cover as some do offer personal injury as well.
But they found that Fred was uploading videos of the day and they decided to not pay out for you long term care Food for thought.

[phil4]

I'm not sure what they're trying to say exactly... that timing through a mobile on the dash is wrong... I get that... or that filming two cars driving round is wrong... not so sure.

On the former, yes, I can see how having real time timing provides a race like scenario where people push harder and take risks they perhaps normally wouldn't, to get the extra second out of a corner, or a lap.

A video though is a different kettle of fish. Yes, from a video feed you can see how long each lap took, and even compare where you spent more time etc. But that's all after the fact, not while you're driving and so it can't really encourage you in the sense real-time phone/dash stuff can.

So the later part seems to be saying that people do daft things in front of cameras, or because of cameras. Sure, I get that. But shall we go to extremes? Ban guests/spectators, don't allow people to watch while out of their cars, and if we want to be really sure, only one or two cars out at a time? That's the sort of daft action you'd need to take if you wanted to stop people trying to catch (or call it race if you want) other cars, and or do so in front of their friends.

I'll be honest, I think the insurance firms need to be a bit more open and accepting of the facts. If it's not a sanctioned race, there's no money at play, and the car isn't running onboard dash mounted lap timing - all things that are easy to see and check... then the rest is risks they'd need to take.

Surely insurance is about quantifying the risk, ie. knowing the boundaries, not trying to reduce them to zero.

[Karl V]

I think what it is saying Phil is that if I do a few laps then post a video or two during lunch, then head back out and prang it, the Insurers could see the videos from earlier and have just cause to say 'you were racing that day at Silverstone, we saw it'.

I think...

[phil4]

Quite possible. So easy win is do as you were and don't post until you're home. But I think what it's saying, is don't post it at all (often the best idea if you're doing something you shouldn't... hope that obvious, but clearly it isn't to all). That or "don't race/drive like you're racing".

Not sure how that works in some of the clips we post though, An A4 racing past an A3.5... shocking stuff!

[Anon]

I understand the post, but I have to disagree with it 100%.

Just because you have lap timing equipment on your car and can analyse your laps and sectors does not mean you are racing lol. What is the point in spending all this money on a track focused racing car that can be set up anyway you want to handle to your specific driving skills in the safest (and fastest) possible manner if you are not able to measure if something you changed has any impact or not. It's not racing, it's actually learning to be a better driver, being in better control of your car to suit you and having a much better dialled in car. It's so much more rewarding when you can get the best out of your car rather than driving it like a granny at like 40% of it' capabilities. Sometimes when you change something, it's not always easy to see if it improved anything or not. And here I am talking about; suspension, camber, brake bias, tyre pressures, tyres, boost, toe if you can change it easily at the track etc. etc. Also different lines on track too.

[phil4]

I knew you’d say that

On the plus side insurance is optional at least.


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[Anon]

Haha! you know me too well already!

Insurance is optional but you'd be crazy to go on track without it, esp. due to the cost of these cars. My policy has a 10% vehicle value excess + the regular excess on track.

[phil4]

Lol, it’s good that you’re a prolific poster, lots of great info.

Yeah my insurance on track was the same. And you’re right I wouldn’t do without it.

I’d just keep your timing under your hat while there... while you might disagree with the above the insurance firm make the rules even if we disagree.


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[Anon]

Lol, it’s good that you’re a prolific poster, lots of great info.

Yeah my insurance on track was the same. And you’re right I wouldn’t do without it.

I’d just keep your timing under your hat while there... while you might disagree with the above the insurance firm make the rules even if we dusagee.


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I try to share things I learn that I think will benefit others. The problem with these cars (actually probably not a problem, depends which way you look at it) is there are not many owners, so the more we share the better for everyone.

RE: ins.
Indeed it is their rules so we need to respect them. This is why I am working on a tablet machine for in-car - partly so I can look at my laps without obviously getting a laptop out, pulling the bonnet off and plugging it in. Stealth mode..

[atomiser]

With Atom Cup dashpro2, it automatically records the laptime, best lap, difference anyway - though i truly don't use this ;-)

I think you are allowed to log data as long as you don't analyse it on the day (?)

I usually insure for trackdays as well so mindful not to explicitly get out the laptop, talk laptimes etc

I got challenged on ultima once, but I was actually using the laptop to monitor the engine - so, without checking, I was allowed to continue.

Anyway thanks for the heads up