350bhp power option, what do you get?

[phil4]

I think it's worth keeping in mind a few things.

1) Inflation... a car from 2013 that was 47K is now more like £52-53K... that's not so bad.

2) We've some new owners who are flushed with cash. I'll not name names, but just look up above. Because they've got the wonga, they're not looking for/interested in a sub 40K car, they're happy spending 60,70,80+

3) Some of us current Ariel owners have been seen and exposed to the the thinking on "sublime" ohlins,"oooh I need loadsa horsepower" 350 remap etc. etc. As such we go from cars which had carbon dash only, sports rear brakes and 10 way Bilsteins, to looking at AP's all round, Ohlins on too, and carbon everywhere.

4) Ariel cater to all sorts with all sorts of money (see 2). In the past this was much the same. When I bought my 3.5 I could have spent more and got onto the list for a 3.5R, but that'd have been well north of 70K and then some. With the Atom 4, the starting point is a little higher (see my previous post of 5K-8K), it can go much much higher due to the range of expensive options if you want.

I'm not saying for one second that all the test drives of a well options car were fair to say that 40K was the price. I'm also not saying the the options aren't expensive. But what I will say, is do you really need all the options/power we've discussed? At 55K is fast, really fast. Spend another 20K-70K and it'll be faster still, but do you really need it? Probably not. If you've got the money and want to, go for it. If you think it's too expensive, don't, you'll still have a stupidly fast car, you just won't have the "pinnacle" of the range. So what?

I'm not trying to either say Ariel are good or Ariel are bad above. It's more that there are a few reasons why we're now talking about more expensive cars, only part of which is Ariel raising prices/inflation...a bigger part of that is us.

[hamtt]

Lets also not forget that the Atom is one of the slowest depreciating cars out there so for every pound you put in you will see almost all of it back(to a point) So you will get ur 3k back for the 350 upgrade as most people i think will look for this in the buyers market in the future.


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If the uptake of new cars slows down, which IMO will if the prices start gettinng close to 100k for a decent spec, I think the cars will start losing popularity and the market will fall.

I bought my first Atom 2 in 2011 for 22k I think because I got tired of the large maintenance bills for ferraris doing the occasional trackdays. I bought the car blind as a punt from Richard Marler without even having driven one and have owned at least one ever since. If the car had been 40k would I have taken such a punt or if replacement service parts were approaching prices of ferrari parts would I have bought it? Definitely not.

As such I think "my type" of buyer is being priced out of the market and they will have to attract a new breed of buyer, who IMO will be spoilt for choice at those prices and the atom won't seem value for money, which is traditionally what it was and what it was marketed as.

[Herohonda]

The Ariel's are fantastic toys, the reason why most of us are here. Its just the pricing is starting to head into the supercar territory. Not the performance bargain it use to be.

One thing is for sure, these cars do seem to hold their value well, at the same time you often see the same cars up for sale for a while before it shifts.

[phil4]

at the same time you often see the same cars up for sale for a while before it shifts.

That'll be two things.

1) There's really not a big market for Ariel's. So if you've got the wrong spec/colour/history, selling it can take an eternity.

2) Flippers - there's been a fair few 4's bought, and then sold on again quickly either because the owner didn't like it, because it was bought to sell at a premium, or Covid or other reasons. In fairness there's been a long wait, so this is to be expected.

[Hedge]

Some of us current Ariel owners have been seen and exposed to the the thinking on "sublime" ohlins,"oooh I need loadsa horsepower" 350 remap etc. etc. As such we go from cars which had carbon dash only, sports rear brakes and 10 way Bilsteins, to looking at AP's all round, Ohlins on too, and carbon everywhere

^What he said.

This is why I constantly push back on those who insist you NEED the 350bhp upgrade to "make the car feel/ come alive" etc. You simply don't. You can justify it anyway you like & I'm the absolute last to fall guilty to that but to suggest this particular option needs ticking at build time, in the same breath as an LSD & a baffled sump, is simply not true.

The inference being that an Atom without Ohlins/ 350bhp, AP's all round isn't fast or good enough baffles me. More pertinently, if such talk puts even one person off from buying one then that's a) one too many & b) a real shame.

Cheers,
Hedge

[John Scherrer]

Ah, the joys of man maths at work ..

I bought mine as a lowly 245 (not!) and supercharged it to 300 some years later, followed by a 310 remap later still.
I loved it from Day 1 but was always aware of those that told everyone that it wasn't an Atom unless it was charged.

So later I added the wings, and then the charger - yes, it was a completely different animal but wasn't necessary, although I 'needed' it!

With hindsight, I could have not ticked the carbon mudguards, the windscreen, the fire extinguisher, SAT NAV etc and the car would have been just as fast and fun to drive. - I couldn't afford to break it, so track days had to be limited.

I really miss my car now and worry that I may not be able to get into another for a while ..

If you have enough spare money, and the options are 'noise' to you then go for what you want. - Just stop telling everyone that the 350 and carbon wheels are essential.

If money is not so freely available, the car will still be mental and a joy to drive.
For me, if there is a next time, I'll probably try and avoid some of the cosmetic stuff.

[Karl V]

My idea of 'essential' is a touring box, mudflaps and a klaxon horn.

I'm very happy with my car and wouldn't swap it for 350BhP, carbon wheels, or sequential gearbox.

We're all different - just like everyone else.

Enjoy what you have!

[SteveC]

Reading this thread has been really interesting as I am new to your Ariel Club... Having only just joined the list I have 2.5+ years to spec and re-spec my finished work of art. I truly believe the Atom 4 is a masterpiece and thrilling in every conceivable way. I was in the market for something blisteringly fast, different and could be used for a few track days each year. For some reason my weapon of choice was a Caterham- actually the 620S, thinking the Atom was out of of what I would consider a reasonable budget. Not wanting to disrespect Caterham owners in any way, but what was i thinking. For 55-60k you could have a good spec 620s but something that is clearly a kit car and archaic. The cramped cockpit and elbows up to your armpits driving position to list a few of its failings. Now for the same money I can spec an Atom that is superior in every conceivable way.
I think you pay for what you get and if you want the very best then you shouldn't be put off by the price tag. Anything that can put an ear to ear grin on the face of grumpy old men, like me is heaven sent. You only live once right?
My only regret is i have waited this long.
What everyone has posted is really helping me with my final spec so I thank you all...
The 350 upgrade was off the table for me, but one 45 minute seat of your pants test drive later and its back on! Why compromise as my gut instinct told me the standard 320 wouldn't quite cut it now I've experienced the upgrade.

[Peter255]

I don't think anyone has said the stock 4 isn't "good". Especially for those that have never driven a previous forced induction Atom.

Lets be honest if you have never driven an Atom every single one new or old would blow away 95% of the population.

BUT this thread is about a relatively expensive option which has to be considered in relation to the other options. And i stand by saying this should be towards the top of the list to be purchased / specified if funds allow. The 350 pack makes MUCH more sense than all the cosmetics you can add for thousands. It improves the drive significantly on road and track. It even sounds better.

Key to this is if you already have, or have recently owned a forced induction Atom. If you do you will appreciate the difference. I didn't feel the 4 acceleration was an upgrade without it. It was just smoother, more comfortable, more grippy and more torquey. BUT with the remap it feels like an upgrade. The performance figures agree with this too, so its not just me.

You will also reap the cash back come resale as an Atom 4-350 just sounds "better" to many people compared to a Atom 4-320 with other mods of the same total list price.

[GraemeW]

I feel your pain SteveC. The one regret I have is not getting into one of these earlier in life. I was always going to buy a Caterham and it got put off year after year and yet I still bought flash cars to get stuck in traffic on the M4 going to work and back. I had my priorities wrong. I’m retired now and corrected the priorities with a new Atom 3.5 a few years ago

[speedmachine]

I don't think anyone has said the stock 4 isn't "good". Especially for those that have never driven a previous forced induction Atom.

Lets be honest if you have never driven an Atom every single one new or old would blow away 95% of the population.

BUT this thread is about a relatively expensive option which has to be considered in relation to the other options. And i stand by saying this should be towards the top of the list to be purchased / specified if funds allow. The 350 pack makes MUCH more sense than all the cosmetics you can add for thousands. It improves the drive significantly on road and track. It even sounds better.

Key to this is if you already have, or have recently owned a forced induction Atom. If you do you will appreciate the difference. I didn't feel the 4 acceleration was an upgrade without it. It was just smoother, more comfortable, more grippy and more torquey. BUT with the remap it feels like an upgrade. The performance figures agree with this too, so its not just me.

You will also reap the cash back come resale as an Atom 4-350 just sounds "better" to many people compared to a Atom 4-320 with other mods of the same total list price.

What are the actual performance figures of the 350? I don’t know the actual numbers...

[Steve Gibson]

Allowing for inflation, the 30bhp gain costs half as much as the 60bhp gain from the supercharger on an Atom 2 or 3. Whilst you get less ‘metal’, the costs are proportionate. I think you can spec a great car for £56-57k. Above that are purely personal choices.

Buy what you love, and you won’t go wrong.

[Peter255]

Allowing for inflation, the 30bhp gain costs half as much as the 60bhp gain from the supercharger on an Atom 2 or 3. Whilst you get less ‘metal’, the costs are proportionate. I think you can spec a great car for £56-57k. Above that are purely personal choices.

Agreed on both points.

Proportionate calculated artificial costing. But its for something which could have been fitted to all the cars at build for next to no cost. Maybe Atom 4.5 will start at 350?

I went for the same ball-park price range. I think thats the sweet spot for an enthusiast spec coming from an older Atom. It could have been MUCH more though. But for me i didn't want a to spend over £60k. It doesn't feel like value to spend £60K+ on an Atom personally. The diminishing returns for the increased cost certainly kick in. An £80k Atom wouldn't be 33% better than a £60k one! But I completely get wanting the "best" and all the "bells and whistles". Value is relative for everyone. Some people have effectively unlimited budgets for their weekend toys. Each to their own!

[SteveC]

whilst we are on value for money topic. I have currently specified a light flywheel as part of my build. knowing the reasons why and the advantages of a light flywheel.

Does anyone know the actual advantages of a light flywheel on the Atom 4, or disadvantages?
Does it pick up revs quicker and feel like it revs freer?
Does it help heal and toe when downshifting on a manual box?

I cant really find much detailed discussion on here and being a newbie (albeit detailed researcher and quick learner) I wondered why a light flywheel wouldn't be high on the list of everyone's priorities.

I agree with Peter a 55-60K Atom is the sweet spot and everything else is aesthetics or for putting in serious lap times. Lets face it any Atom is likely to get lots of attention even an entry model, to the uneducated...

[Anon]

I went for the same ball-park price range. I think thats the sweet spot for an enthusiast spec coming from an older Atom. It could have been MUCH more though. But for me i didn't want a to spend over £60k. It doesn't feel like value to spend £60K+ on an Atom personally. The diminishing returns for the increased cost certainly kick in. An £80k Atom wouldn't be 33% better than a £60k one! But I completely get wanting the "best" and all the "bells and whistles". Value is relative for everyone. Some people have effectively unlimited budgets for their weekend toys. Each to their own!

What is an enthusiast spec? All Atoms are enthusiast cars so no matter the spec - so by default you have an enthusiast spec, not sure I get your meaning here.

I disagree with the 33% better argument. An Atom fitted with Ohlins, power upgrade, lap timing, forged wheels, and especially a sequential gearbox will be miles better than an Atom with no lap timing, single or non-adjustable shocks and a manual gearbox. To me, the car does not really suit a manual gearbox unless you want to potter around, it's begging the sequential to get the real performance from it. It's the reason every other car/competitor in this league has a sequential gearbox, 620R, BAC Mono etc.

If you want an Atom to impress your friends or cruise on the road, then granted it along with 23 way Ohlin adjustable shocks, manual box and all the rest are not needed.