Atom 4 - Pre Spec/Order Discussion

[cvjoint]

Aero upgrades will be available - measurable down force in the real world is yet to be tested, but let me assure you - it is far, far greater than the current ones (which, whether you choose to believe it or not, DO provide down force and settle the car down a lot at high speeds )

It seems obvious to me the front wings work. I don't have a theory as to how they wouldn't. I presume this comes mostly from folks who want to rationalize not spending the money for them. The rear will work somewhat, depending on how much clean air there is back there. It would be super if you could release another wind tunnel plot like you did with the standard Atom 4. That was really helpful.

I'm not about to put any suspension geometry details on a public internet chat forum - that's commercial suicide. We don't give that out to anyone which is part of the reason why there isn't anything like an Atom... We are more than happy to give out Setup advice, to change your camber etc, but not how the car works!

Fair! It wasn't obvious it's a trade secret. I thought that it's mostly too tough for most to wrap their heads around the data even if provided. I would think in this day and age any OEM could get the data by putting the car on some sort of suspension dyno, but I'm out of my element as to testing in this arena. At least we're asking the right questions if the data is sensitive!

The Cup Car was never tested for torsional rigidity. However the Atom 4 has a 15% over the Atom 3.5. There is a difficult line between stiffness and compliance. too stiff and the car wold feel horrendous on the road, to soft and it would be wallowy on a race track.

Any plans for a cup-like Atom 4? I'm really digging the safety features to be honest. There are crashes at every track day. The "racy" options are more of a second priority.

I also don't see the obsession with comparing a standard 4 to a Cup Car or 3.5R... Comparisons need to be like for like really.

Exactly! You don't see the new Cayman aiming to dethrone the 911. It just needs to beat the old Cayman.

A 4R with all the trick bits on it (wings, carbon wheels, carbon panels - essentially the '4' version of the '3') will be much, much faster round a track than a 3.5R. (however this is yet to be manufactured)

Better aero will be a game changer. I'm looking forward to this.

But what about 800HP, the high speed entry into the apex of Turn 4 at Willow Springs, tensioner failure, generating clean air in London and the outrageous reduction in the size of mint aero's?

The relevance of the K20A is lost on some. That Ariel was able to source the longblocks from Honda is nothing short of a miracle. The Pikes Peak hill-climb winner in 2016 and 2017 used a modified K20A with HPD backing to set the fastest time...overall. That is no small feat. They could have used anything in the unlimited class, but the power output per footprint of the K20A was to this overall winner the best formula. The Norma car he drove will accept for instance, a 400 hp BMW V8. I'm sure there is room for a Rover engine, or a super sophisticated 3 cylinder EU economy engine. However, for those that want the highest performance it's the K20A that delivers the goods. Oh, and it does take some turning and apexes to go up a mountain like Pikes Peak. See:
https://www.turnology.com/news/video-vo ... ak-record/

The same technology that allows a 2.0L to reach 1,200 hp in drag trim, and 600 hp hillclimb, allows you to enjoy 245 hp NA or 350 supercharged for ridiculously long periods between rebuilds. I noted that in the U.S. there is a 425 hp factory Atom (3RS) that runs on pump gas, I presume this one too can last quite some time between rebuilds. Good luck getting that out of the K20C1 on low octane anytime soon. The K20A heads (and really any true VTEC K20) are the peak of performance, whether that is on pump gas or in ultimate states of build. Ask the 9th gen Civic guys how many aftermarket head parts they got since the release of their single port neutered VTEC engine in 2012. They all dream of swapping in a K20A head. This time it will be different right?

So which is it, A) power output doesn't matter, or B) it's all about power delivery? If power doesn't matter then please, humor me. Why did Ariel go to the trouble of lengthening the wheelbase to fit the larger and heavier K20C? I assume wheelbase was always a design parameter and could have been lengthened in prior updates. No one here glanced at the power figure before getting on the Atom 4 wait-list? Right... They must have hated the power delivery of the naturally aspirated engine revving to an exotic like 8,000+ rpm. They must of hated a lighter more compact car. Oh the horror of the supercharger noise, heard all about it in the last 20 pages.

You may not care about how an Atom feels when driven proper but certainly even for grocery runs you would care if the tensioner broke. Your popsicle would melt away. Maybe waxer skills will translate well to cleaning up those direct-injection-caused intake valve deposits.

[reg]

You may not care about how an Atom feels when driven proper but certainly even for grocery runs you would care if the tensioner broke. Your popsicle would melt away. Maybe waxer skills will translate well to cleaning up those direct-injection-caused intake valve deposits.

You can quote what you want, the fact is you have zero experience of the new car, of the new engine and are rolling out very silly statements to justify what is basically a load of old bollocks.

You're arguing with yourself at this point.

[Hedge]

You can quote what you want, the fact is you have zero experience of the new car, of the new engine and are rolling out very silly statements to justify what is basically a load of old bollocks.

You're arguing with yourself at this point.

^^ What he said.

Cheers,
Hedge

[phil4]

Come on people. This is an internet forum. We're all entitled to our opinions. And this place serves to share them.

Everyone has a vested interest - those won't align, and you won't all agree.

Can we please try and keep to discussing those opinions in as constructive a way as possible.

[Anon]

RE: the sequential gearbox. When I ordered my car what feels like a life time ago, I wanted the H pattern gearbox. Since then though, I have changed my mind with the hope I'll be able to afford a sequential gearbox in the new 4. To me, the sequential gearbox is even more important than performance increases. I'd rather spend the extra money on a seq box than other engine performance increases. There is nothing like just going down through the gears before taking a slow hairpin or chicane - that sound is amazing and really feels like a F1 car on track or as close to it as we can without having a race car. Also, it's much harder to retro fit a gearbox after the car is built.

[autobackup]

Phil

I'll second that request!!

[HenryJS]

It seems obvious to me the front wings work. I don't have a theory as to how they wouldn't. I presume this comes mostly from folks who want to rationalize not spending the money for them. The rear will work somewhat, depending on how much clean air there is back there. It would be super if you could release another wind tunnel plot like you did with the standard Atom 4. That was really helpful.

Hopefully when we have done the testing on them this will be available.

The Cup Car was never tested for torsional rigidity. However the Atom 4 has a 15% over the Atom 3.5. There is a difficult line between stiffness and compliance. too stiff and the car wold feel horrendous on the road, to soft and it would be wallowy on a race track.

Any plans for a cup-like Atom 4? I'm really digging the safety features to be honest. There are crashes at every track day. The "racy" options are more of a second priority.

We will develop a roll cage for the 4 yes.

I also don't see the obsession with comparing a standard 4 to a Cup Car or 3.5R... Comparisons need to be like for like really.

Exactly! You don't see the new Cayman aiming to dethrone the 911. It just needs to beat the old Cayman.

But it seem's that all the comparisons have been to the standard 4 to an SRA / Cup Car and the 3.5R???



The relevance of the K20A is lost on some.

I have to say, even a young K20A is now over 10 years old and has absolutely no relevance whatsoever, because you cant buy a new one from Honda.
A K20Z is also irrelevant, because they stopped making it so long ago, again you cant buy a new one from Honda

But we will still compare the vehicles, as the new one always get compared against the old one.

Why did Ariel go to the trouble of lengthening the wheelbase to fit the larger and heavier K20C?
Surely this is not a serious question??
The K20A, K20Z and K24Z are engines of the past, yesterdays technology. If we keep just fitting the same engine,
1: We will end up like Catherham, not moving forward with the times / trends. (no offence meant to anyone who has or likes Caterhams - but the intrinsic essence of the car is still ancient! it doesn't stop them being fun!)
2: all the engines will be second hand (if we kept fitting K20Zs or As)
3: cost a fortune to refurbish before going in your car (if we kept fitting K20Zs or As)
4: the K20C is a better engine for an Atom
5: the K20C could meet Euro Emissions laws (with work)
6: a K20C in an Atom is faster than a K20Z or K20A Atom.
7: a K20C in an Atom is faster than a K20Z or K20A Atom.

I had to put that last point twice, because I dont feel as though its coming accross enough!

We will continue to fit K24Z engine to the Nomad while the engine is still available.

[Hedge]

Not nearly definitive-enough, Henry.

#musttryharder

Cheers,
Hedge

P.S. Is an A4 quicker than an A3.5 then?

[Trigger]

Yeah I echo Hedge - I am getting confused - is the 4 quicker or not ???

On a more serious note, we have had these kinds of things before. UK buyers of Ariel cars like what the factory have done and do minor Mods if at all. The US market is different and if they havent modded the car and almost reinvented it they arent content. Each to their own but I trust Ariel when they tell me stuff like this as I feel there is nobody better to trust.

Trigger

[reg]

Why did Ariel go to the trouble of lengthening the wheelbase to fit the larger and heavier K20C?
Surely this is not a serious question??
The K20A, K20Z and K24Z are engines of the past, yesterdays technology. If we keep just fitting the same engine,
1: We will end up like Catherham, not moving forward with the times / trends. (no offence meant to anyone who has or likes Caterhams - but the intrinsic essence of the car is still ancient! it doesn't stop them being fun!)
2: all the engines will be second hand (if we kept fitting K20Zs or As)
3: cost a fortune to refurbish before going in your car (if we kept fitting K20Zs or As)
4: the K20C is a better engine for an Atom
5: the K20C could meet Euro Emissions laws (with work)
6: a K20C in an Atom is faster than a K20Z or K20A Atom.
7: a K20C in an Atom is faster than a K20Z or K20A Atom.

I had to put that last point twice, because I dont feel as though its coming accross enough!

We will continue to fit K24Z engine to the Nomad while the engine is still available.

[phil4]

- Henry Catchpole/Carfection try out the new Atom 4.

[phil4]

A question for anyone who knows...

We all know the previous Atoms came with very little "standard" for the money...

LSD was an extra
Handbrake was an extra if you had big brakes.
The mini "windscreen" was an extra.
IVA Test and Road Tax + Registration was an extra.
Foot rest was an extra.

No probs... pay what you need to get it as you want.

We've seen road tests now of the Atom 4, sporting adjustable bilsteins, carbon wheels, a handbrake, windscreen etc. Clearly not all of those are going to be included in the £39,995 price tag we've been told. So lets put this another way... What of the previous Atom 3 options (such as those listed above) are included as standard in the quote Atom 4 price tag?

Or put another way, what do you get for the £39,995 price?

[Trigger]

Lockable fuel cap ?

[HenryJS]

Or put another way, what do you get for the £39,995 price?

You get a complete working car, but not yet registered for the road. We have sold cars like this to people purely as a track day 'hack'. because when its wet they don't want to ruin their GT2RS. The very basic cars seem also to sell well to Russia et al. Dont ask me why - I dont know!

a basic car is basic . None of the Atom 3 options are included. Apart from the Forced Induction. The thing that most people wanted! Forced Inducton as standard! i would say 75% of Atoms (and Nomads!) are forced induction units.

Its so the car is achievable for most that have 'sports car' money to spare, Then to upgrade over time.

[phil4]

Thanks Henry, that clarifies things nicely!