[quote="RichardR"]
[quote="Tim Arnold"]
With 1075 BHP/TONNE a Gixer stands absolutley still and doesn't go anywhere... add the neccessary accessory to make it go, i.e. a (75kg / 11.75 stone) rider, and the P2WR drops to around 740 BHP/TONNE... with the same weight driver a 500kgs car with 450 bhp will have a P2WR of 780BHP/TONNE!
If you haven't already seen this,
CLICK HERE - or right click and 'Save As'Â to see how a Honda car deals with a Honda bike - Button, F1 B.A.R. v Rutter, CBR1000RR Fireblade Superbike.... three runs altogether... first run, Button's anti-stall device causes a prob and delays the car... watch the second run... and the third! (And before anyone says a Moto GP Bike would be quicker... The Honda RC211V Moto GP bike with rider on it has a P2WR of 1075 BHP/Tonne - the Superbike is only 90 BHP/TONNE less)... the B.A.R. Honda with driver in it has a P2WR of at least 1,580 BHP/TONNE).
[/quote]
Actually 450kg Atom / Gixxer 1k would be exactly the same P2W once you take fluids, battery etc into account ie. 200kg Gixxer, 550kg Atom.
[/quote]
I don't know the exact figures, I'm making some assumptions, like... an Atom "450" weighs 500kgs (which if it was the case I would also assume that to include the "fixed" fluids - petrol being the only real variable), I would also assume the same for the bike. With either machine, there's no point calculating the P2WR without a driver/rider... but the performance doesn't just come down to the P2WR... it's how the engine delivers the torque and power, gearing, aerodynamics, the laws of physics acting on two very different (in layout) machines. But saying that, I doubt there's that much difference in performance in a straight line between the two.
[quote="RichardR"]Regarding F1 car vs bike - Off the line is where car's have huge traction advatage to bikes - a bike just wants to wheelie or light up the rear. In Autocar 0-100-0 test Atom300 & Gixxer 1000 where pretty much identical to 60, but between 60-100 the bike was about 1.5s quicker ie. Almost 50% quicker.[/quote]
That's where you are wrong actually, they don't! Ok F1 cars have big fat tyres and are heavier than bikes, but they have almost 1,000BHP (in '05 spec) to plant on the ground and in fact for a car with that kind of power, they are too light to do that at low speed... that's why they used to have traction control... and why there is great skill now getting an F1 car off the line without it... Bikes have a higher centre of gravity, which does actually help with traction (although it takes a skilled rider to efectively balance the available grip against wheelspin and wheelie), and as I have said, the P2WR of a bike is less than an F1 car, which will work to the biike's advantage. Now watch the video again... this demobstrates what I'm saying... in the last two runs (second run shows this best), bike and car do the first 75 - 100 metres together... only when the B.A.R. gets the traction it needs (when it's going fast enough for the downforce to come into play) to place its power on the road efficiently does it murder the bike... and then it does it big-time!Â
[quote="RichardR"]I'm sure an F1 car would still murder a Gixxer 1000 from 60-100 though!
[/quote]
A Gixer 1000
and ANY Superbike or Moto GP Bike, without
any doubt!
This weight thing is the only thing that worries me about James's 450 when it arrives. I'm used to working with GT cars that have similar power/torque but weigh over twice as much as an Atom, and even they have traction problems from lower speeds. Example... we run Corvette's that have a minimum weight limit (under the sporting regulations) of 1,100kgs.. our cars (powered by 5.7 ltr normally aspirated V8's remember... very controllable power) have 450 BHP and 420 - 440 Lbs/Ft, and very wide, very sticky slicks... and they struggle to stick at low speeds... at high speeds we have the benefit of splitter/flat bottom/diffuser, dive planes and huge rear wing (as well as 1,100kgs) to press the thing into the ground.
Our 'Vettes will do 0 - 60 in about 3.5 seconds, 100 in less than six and top out at 185 mph on the gearing we use... so they aren't slow!
Another comparison is, I drove two Skyline GTR's on the same day at Elvington last year... one had 350 bhp, the other had 600 bhp... the more powerful car was not significantly quicker... because you couldn't use the power... it simply didn't have sufficient grip, except on the faster parts of the track, and that's the only place is was noticeably faster... lap times I suspect, were little different.
my still awating 300 was my enforced option other than a new GSXR1000 @ 1075bhp por tonne...