Atom 4 - Pre Spec/Order Discussion

[phil4]

It seems logical as soon as the ATOM 4 (And maybe 4R) are complete the Nomad will be next to get a turbo.

Just wondering...

Got to stem the flow of Nomad orders somehow... need room to build the Atoms after all.

[cvjoint]

Quoted for truth here in the order it was posted.

Hedge is the one that started the whole 3.5R comparison and vouched for the outcome vs "a 4":

Take a 3.5 SC out & get it to follow a 4 & it'll not stand a prayer of keeping up. Arguably this applies to the R, also. Best ask Henry about that

I merely suggested the opposite might be true:

The 3.5R strikes me as a much faster car.

Best of all, Henry actually pitches in:

So:
A standard 4 is faster than a standard 3.

A standard power 4 with big brakes, bilstein adj shocks and a couple of other small items that you may or may not want is faster than a 3.5 310 with similar spec.

A standard power 4 with the above and some other nice-ities, wheels maybe, ohlins shocks, etc etc is probably faster on the road than a 3.5R. However - it being a road, there has been no racing!

A 3.5R vs a std 4 with adj dampers, wheels etc etc on track hasn't been tested. I suspect they would be similar. A big bore 3.5R might be a different story. who knows!

A 4R with all the trick bits on it (wings, carbon wheels, carbon panels - essentially the '4' version of the '3') will be much, much faster round a track than a 3.5R. (however this is yet to be manufactured)

Then I get chewed up for having zero experience with the Atom 4:

You can quote what you want, the fact is you have zero experience of the new car, of the new engine and are rolling out very silly statements to justify what is basically a load of old bollocks.

You're arguing with yourself at this point.

^^ What he said.

Cheers,
Hedge

The record says I didn't not start the 3.5R comparison, I merely pitched in a forecast like everyone including Henry. Hedge put words in Henry's mouth and Henry straight up said that the Atom 4 that is decisively faster than a 3.5R is, I quote from above, "yet to be manufactured." In other words, there is no freaking evidence, no one has it, we're talking about future product. At least my reference was based on the Atom 4 and the specs everyone has seen in the media not a unicorn that someone heard someone else talk about.

I don't see what is up with the pitchforks. I bought my Atom without being able to drive it. You have to go 2,800 miles from Cali to Virginia to meet with someone at TMI for a ride. Many of us buy the Atom based on the basic specs that exist out there online without a test drive, and no, there is no freaking multi channel data logging data from Ariel in UK or TMI to inform you.

[Hedge]

Hedge put words in Henry's mouth and Henry straight up said that the Atom 4 that is decisively faster than a 3.5R is, I quote from above, "yet to be manufactured." In other words, there is no freaking evidence, no one has it, we're talking about future product.

Sorry but you're wrong.

The 4R is the variant that is "yet to be manufactured"; you've got the 4 & the 4R mixed up. So there is evidence - albeit not measured in exact timings. Having been in one, I'd say the 4 is at least as quick as a 3.5R - if not faster (on the road). You can either take Henrys word for this (over mine) or not. As at this moment in time, not one of the pieces written/ video'd thus far have done a back to back comparison on the two.

Cheers,
Hedge

[Peter255]

There is really no need to re-post comments and agonise over who said what and when.

Lets get back to the excitement of waiting to drive shiny new "big boys toys" that now make funny fart / wooshing noises!

[Hedge]

There is really no need to re-post comments and agonise over who said what and when

I'm merely pointing out the post was factually incorrect. A forum for individual opinions etc, as you pointed out.

Cheers,
Hedge

[autobackup]

Som

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote :
"..........Great to see the new Atom video and also hear it. I am indeed very pleased with the sound package with that sports exhaust.
I am sure many would have preferred the supercharger whine but I find the turbo sound more enjoyable. Also it is available over a much bigger rev range........"
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Other way around I'm afraid!!

- As it is belt driven power from a supercharger is available over the whole rev range while a turbo charger requires a reasonable amount of exhaust gas flow to start to work effectively - as a result turbo power boost is only available over a smaller RPM range!!

However that said a s/c requires some engine power (belt drive) to work whereas a turbo is, to all intents and purposes, virtually 'free' power!!

I would add that my statement above specifically excludes specialist dual turbo charger installations - i.e. low power turbo working initially with the second high power turbo being progressively fed in as rpm is increased - I have a friend with a dual t/c rally prepared Lancia Integrale that initially makes +/- 400bhp from the first LP turbo then as the rpm is increased and the second HP turbo starts progressively working it eventually ends up at +/- 950bhp!!

[Peter255]

Hedge, I wasn't really aiming that comment at you tbh. No one wants to scroll through walls of re-posts. Thats all.

So back on topic what are the exhaust options? 1 or 2 exit holes for sports or normal? Is that correct?

[phil4]

So back on topic what are the exhaust options?

And is it as simple as before to change to the normal one for trackdays?

[HenryJS]

So many questions to answer!

Gareth220:
As everyone has said - dont panic! £43-44K will get you towards the car you want.
Even if you didnt want to stretch that past £40-41k the basic car is outstanding. please come and see us when we have a completed pricelist.

Stu and Phil are correct - we arent keeping the pricelist back for a laugh, it needs to be right first time round. Otherwise its a pain for everyone.
Phil - the Brakes on the demo 4 are the AP units - definitely not Alcons. They look very similar.

Som:
The wings on an Atom 3 were about £2k for a front and £2.5k for a rear . Expect a small price increase due to an increase in complexity of the wing, but its not going to be huge.

Peter:
K24Z7 Engine still goes in the Nomad because the whole car needs to be re thought for the new engine. Specifically the engine bay needs to be larger. Your logic is undeniable - the turbo engine will end up in the Nomad - but the question is - when? Who knows? tomorrow? 2021? yes? no? maybe?

Winmoz:
I am not berating new Atom's or Nomad with the K20Z / K24Z engines in them. I was asked why are we not continuing to fit them. The main reason is you cant get them new anymore. AND that in 2019, when we start production of the Atom 4 - the K20Z engine will have been out of production for 7 years... It is yesterdays technology - BUT that doesnt mean to say that it isnt good technology. Look how many people want the classic LandRover shape back - box on wheels with an under powered engine and a slightly chocolaty drive train. Its yesterdays tech, but we love it. Look forward to chatting today!

Peter:
Exhausts:
Twin Exit for Standard
Single Exit for Sports
Decat system TBC.

Phil:
Yes it is a similar arrangement for swapping out your exhaust.



Lets not start an argument over who said what - water under the bridge etc etc, wires crossed, lets all have a cold pint of cider and start afresh?
conflict is not what I / We / Ariel / The Club wants

[Winmoz]

The factory must be busy cos the phone kept ringing but no answer) it was after 5pm, so I may have missed them, plus, the sun was shining today and if you had access to a 4, would you be sitting in an office?)

Just hope the waiting list hasn’t grown to 3 yrs...


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[Anon]

Haven't you only just taken delivery of your new 3.5 Winmoz?

[Winmoz]

Haven't you only just taken delivery of your new 3.5 Winmoz?

Yes, I’m March. And very good it is too. Love that car. Am now thinking I’m going to love it for another 2 yrs and then hopefully fall in love with a turbo’d 4. Some quantum computing needs to be done on the justification, but at the end of the day, I was thinking of supercharging my car, now I’ll hold off and plough that and a little bit more into the next generation.




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[Anon]

I'd be happy to have any Atom right now!

You don't need a qubit, a simple 1 bit will do and the answer is always 1 when it comes to the Atom 4!

[cvjoint]

We will develop a roll cage for the 4 yes.

That's great to hear! Will there be a cup/SRA version of the car though? There is a bit more content in those, the roll bar is higher and integrated into the structure of the car with some extra forward beams, the gas tank is steel and has roll over protection, and the pedal box is reinforced. The rest, like fuel extinguisher I can figure out and implement quite cheaply. The Atom 4 is an opportunity to install some sort of a halo like in modern F1 cars

I have to say, even a young K20A is now over 10 years old and has absolutely no relevance whatsoever, because you cant buy a new one from Honda.
A K20Z is also irrelevant, because they stopped making it so long ago, again you cant buy a new one from Honda

I understand, from the OEM's point of view it's the only way forward. I'm a big fan of the power output/$ for up to 360 hp and the emission compliance is bound to be very useful for those who register them. As for the rest, I'm a fan of the outdated Ferrari 458 engine vs. the modern 488, the outdated naturally aspirated 4.8L Cayenne V8 vs the modern 4.0 turbo, the outdated naturally aspirated 7.0L Chevy Z06 vs. the modern supercharged ones. I enjoy some of the old school way of thinking, and it doesn't always result in a slower car. Must be why I left behind ABS and electric power steering track cars to run the SRA instead. Why wasn't "A(dvanced)VTEC" the future and instead we got a turbo and DI?

[Som]

Thanks Henry. At that price point I will definitely have both wings.
Hope to see a spec list soon.


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