Ariel.Club Forum

by **Anon** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 12:52 pm

Hedge wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:13 am So, say an Atom on non-Ariel supplied wheels, disintegrates at high speed - resulting in a death (or two).

What a load of drivel!!

Try to apply that illogical thinking to anything else in life.

by **CAG3D** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:21 am

I’m 100% with you Hedge!!

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by **Hedge** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 10:13 am

So, say an Atom on non-Ariel supplied wheels, disintegrates at high speed - resulting in a death (or two).

Who's in the news? Who wears the reputation risk? Ariel or the third party wheel supplier?

To a point, I can see why people would choose non-Ariel supplied cosmetic enhancements. But would I trust buying critical components from anywhere other than them? Not a prayer. But, as ever, each to their own.

As regards to IP, that's a different story. Personally I choose to buy as much stuff as I can through Ariel. I've been doing so for a long time, after all. Think of the number of specialist UK car companies have come & gone over the years. Ariel celebrate 20 years of the Atom next year; that is an incredible achievement. Car enthusiasts need people like them to prosper; hence I've no problem supporting them as much as I can - & yes, to the detriment of competition. And most certainly to my wallet

Cheers,
Hedge

by **hamtt** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:35 am

CAG3D wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:25 am I miss my Commodore 64 [emoji3525]

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Hawkeye!

by **CAG3D** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:25 am

I miss my Commodore 64 [emoji3525]

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by **hamtt** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:22 am

phil4 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 am

.. I suspect the reason for it was different.

To limit your choice so they are the only place yiu can buy the wheels from ofcourse. But this is is all just speculation, let's wait and see what the actual pcd is. We may be pleasantly surprised.

It's not just their IP they're protective of. They have every right to do that. But over the past years a few different manufacturers have tried to introduce products and all they've done is knock them without consideration.

by **phil4** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:59 am

hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:49 am I don't see how using a common pcd would allow anyone to benefit from their intellectual property.

On that specific, I agree.. I suspect the reason for it was different. And I agree (As stated earlier about batteries/fuel) lock in is bad.

I was talking more generally as you you'd said they're very protective of their IP.

by **hamtt** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:49 am

phil4 wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:34 am
hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:58 am HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products
I can see why you'd say this... and I agree, they are... but I think it's for a different reason. As you'd be aware, since you do too, they spend a significant amount of time/money designing parts for the car, wings being a good example of this.

As with any design or copyright, they're not best happy when people then copy that, making profit instead of them recouping costs.

I realise you may suffer their wrath more than I, and I'd not for one second say you're out to rip them off, I just figure that if you made only novel bolt ons, rather than things that are similar to what the factory produce you'd have next to no hassle. I'm not suggesting you do that btw, it was a metaphorical "you".

In most regards the fact the car is a physical object, as opposed to lines of software/electronics makes things a lot easier, since you can't hide the size, shape, angle etc of things.

I don't see how using a common pcd would allow anyone to benefit from their intellectual property. All it would do is allow people to use a bigger range of wheels, majority of which would have existed before they even designed their own wheel. And realistically, how many different shapes can you have to a wheel before it starts looking 'similar'.

Trying to corner or capture a market is a fools game in the long run, as can be seen all across the board in pretty much any industry, whether it was Commodore with computers or the Hunt brothers with silver.

by **phil4** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 8:34 am

hamtt wrote: ↑Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:58 am HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products

I can see why you'd say this... and I agree, they are... but I think it's for a different reason. As you'd be aware, since you do too, they spend a significant amount of time/money designing parts for the car, wings being a good example of this.

As with any design or copyright, they're not best happy when people then copy that, making profit instead of them recouping costs.

I realise you may suffer their wrath more than I, and I'd not for one second say you're out to rip them off, I just figure that if you made only novel bolt ons, rather than things that are similar to what the factory produce you'd have next to no hassle. I'm not suggesting you do that btw, it was a metaphorical "you".

In most regards the fact the car is a physical object, as opposed to lines of software/electronics makes things a lot easier, since you can't hide the size, shape, angle etc of things.

by **hamtt** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:58 am

There's two ways Ariel could have gone with this.

I don't think originally they wanted to use an awkward PCD but were just left lumbered with that because of the MGF hub that was used. Generally speaking products that "share" common components/specs tend to do better over time (think of computers at the beginning, there were numerous brands with proprietary technologies but the PC as we know it now thrived because any manufacturer could make any component and they were all more or less interchangeable, and each specific manufacturer pushed the boundaries in their specialised fields). You could argue some of the hot-hatches have become so popular because they are so easy (and cheap) to modify (whether in the styling sense or in the mechanical sense). If Ariel had this attitude then they would obviously use a hub with a common PCD.

HOWEVER, Ariel are very protective of their products and if they believe their brand is strong enough, they could stick to an awkward PCD just so people can only buy the wheels from them. After all, it’s just one component in the whole of the car and I doubt anyone will be put off from buying an Atom just because they can’t find many wheels for it. I strongly believe this is the route Ariel will have taken. It’s sad in a way to see but completely understandable from their POV. If that’s the case I’ll just have to get Rolta to knock up some more wheels…

by **phil4** » Thu Sep 12, 2019 7:27 am

AlanP wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 pm 'Hey Ferrari, I want to buy some wheels to fit my 812, but not from you, tell me all the details I need so I can give the business to someone else'

Ok, I get that... but imagine if every single electronics manufacturer decided to use a different battery, shape size and voltage. A bit like mobile phone manufactures do. No more AAA, AA, D or PP3 batteries, no you'd need to buy the right battery from the right manufacturer for everything from the kitchen scales to your smoke alarm or your kids toy car.

Being silly further, imagine if you needed a specific type of fuel for each and every car, so you needed to fill up with Ariel fuel, or Ford fuel, or Ferrari fuel.

Ariel do pretty well most of the time, so I'm not bashing them... the above is just a silly example of how allowing manufacturers to tie you in could be a tad annoying.

by **AlanP** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 11:06 pm

'Hey Ferrari, I want to buy some wheels to fit my 812, but not from you, tell me all the details I need so I can give the business to someone else'

'You English, you are so funny'

by **reg** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:36 pm

simonrhart wrote: ↑Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:44 pm I think they want people to buy the forged wheels from the factory. I wanted to know the pcd so I could source my own forged wheels, hence getting the car sooner instead of waiting for the factory ones that are not yet ready. I need to know the offset as well, neither of which would be shared.

The factory forged wheels do look amazing, but there should be a choice for customers if they want.

Same as the aero kit, the sequential box, aero wishbones.....

I do wonder why the factory is seemingly incapable of supplying these things, but have been happy to take deposits from those who have said they want these options?

by **Anon** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:44 pm

I think they want people to buy the forged wheels from the factory. I wanted to know the pcd so I could source my own forged wheels, hence getting the car sooner instead of waiting for the factory ones that are not yet ready. I need to know the offset as well, neither of which would be shared.

The factory forged wheels do look amazing, but there should be a choice for customers if they want.

by **reg** » Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:21 pm

What’s the secret with the PCD, have they invented a new standard of measurement, or are they just being difficult for the sake of it?

When I find one, I’ll measure it!

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Wheel PCD

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