Ariel.Club Forum

[quote="wisp"]
Hey Nathan. 

[/quote]

Fair cop.  Long as its got dobly thats fine 

Hurrah well done, knew you could do it, wasnt so bad now was it!! Not in the least suprised that the only bad part was done by A another!!

If I was you I would keep your eyes peeled for an MGF trophy 160vvc RightOff/Smashed (complete car).
Rover parts are starting to get scarce, gear change cables, throttle cables (4m long) and of course engines.
In the UK they can still be had cheaply, so Im filling up my garage with bits

Having said that Im only aware of handfull of MK1's so might be worth keeping things original.... especially if yours is in good nick, Ben and myself have a tendancy to erm, mess with things

Indeed, Ben will have to up his game as I took my TURBO K-Series for its maiden voyage today and can say without any hesitation or doubt OMG (Oh My God!) Im running the tallest 5th gear and final drive available for the PG1 and the 160VVC trudged and ran out of puff before the rev limiter at 6500, but the Turbo just blows 5th away as if it was 3rd gear!!! Seriously its like needing to grab for 4th but theres no 6th.

........... ATOM 3 boys whatch out!......................

JD

[quote="benyeats"]
Anyway back to headgaskets ?

Ben
[/quote]

Yes, enough of work and more of toys.

The car seems to run well and hold a more stable temperature in the short outing I have managed since the gasket replacement. My latest problem has been starting it. I though the battery might have been buggered after sitting for 6 months. However the Odyssey batteries can apparently sit for up to 2 years without needing a recharge. It turns out it's the starter motor that is broken. It must of happened when I tried to start it with a cylinder full of coolant.

Hey Nathan. 

[quote="wisp"]
[quote="benyeats"]
I think you are being slightly pedantic, UMTS is generally accepted to refer to 3G services and is W-CDMA based.  EDGE is more like 2.5G as it is way slower than UMTS.

Ben
[/quote]
By the US being CDMA not GSM I was referring to IS-95 (cdmaOne), 2G CDMA and CDMA2000. They are all 3GPP2. Not compatible and in competition with GSM.
[/quote]

I knew what you meant really.  You can get GSM in most (all ? ) of the US these days but it was not the case until relativley recently. 

Anyway back to headgaskets ?

Ben

[quote="benyeats"]
I think you are being slightly pedantic, UMTS is generally accepted to refer to 3G services and is W-CDMA based.  EDGE is more like 2.5G as it is way slower than UMTS.

Ben
[/quote]

Sorry, I made a slight mistake calling W-CDMA 3GPP2. It's not, it's also 3GPP/GSM. But what I meant still stands when I said the rest of the world was GSM and US was CDMA. By the US being CDMA not GSM I was referring to IS-95 (cdmaOne), 2G CDMA and CDMA2000. They are all 3GPP2. Not compatible and in competition with GSM. It's not the same network as the 3G W-CDMA(UMTS) that we know. In New Zealand we have both competing networks.

[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="wisp"]
Ben, good one on the thermal shock  not so good on the 3G/CDMA statement.

I'm pretty sure 3G (3rd Generation) is a standard. The first network, in Japan, to achieve 3G was based as you say on a later version W-CDMA (the yanks are probably still CDMAone   ;) ). The W-CDMA networks are actually to 3GPP2 standard. Other networks to operate at 3G are based on EDGE (Enhanced GPRS) which is a GSM technology. These networks are 3GPP, not to be confused as being the same as 3GPP2.
[/quote]

I think you are being slightly pedantic, UMTS is generally accepted to refer to 3G services and is W-CDMA based.  EDGE is more like 2.5G as it is way slower than UMTS.

Ben
[/quote]

bag on your head?

[quote="wisp"]
Ben, good one on the thermal shock  not so good on the 3G/CDMA statement.

I'm pretty sure 3G (3rd Generation) is a standard. The first network, in Japan, to achieve 3G was based as you say on a later version W-CDMA (the yanks are probably still CDMAone   ;) ). The W-CDMA networks are actually to 3GPP2 standard. Other networks to operate at 3G are based on EDGE (Enhanced GPRS) which is a GSM technology. These networks are 3GPP, not to be confused as being the same as 3GPP2.
[/quote]

I think you are being slightly pedantic, UMTS is generally accepted to refer to 3G services and is W-CDMA based.  EDGE is more like 2.5G as it is way slower than UMTS.

Ben

Ben, good one on the thermal shock  not so good on the 3G/CDMA statement.

I'm pretty sure 3G (3rd Generation) is a standard. The first network, in Japan, to achieve 3G was based as you say on a later version W-CDMA (the yanks are probably still CDMAone   ;) ). The W-CDMA networks are actually to 3GPP2 standard. Other networks to operate at 3G are based on EDGE (Enhanced GPRS) which is a GSM technology. These networks are 3GPP, not to be confused as being the same as 3GPP2.

Ahh - thanks Ben - all makes sense now.

[quote="Trigger"]
Just for interests sake what do u mean exactly by Thermal shock and why does the distance to radiator make such a difference ?

Trigger
[/quote]

Thermal shock is when a material goes from one temperature to another in a rapid timeframe. 

Lifted from an MGF website:

"The issues involved can be summarised as the following:

  1. The radiator has a larger cooling capacity than the engine requires (at least in northern Europe!).
  2. The radiator is located some pipe distance away from the engine.
  3. The thermostat is located on the intake to the water pump and therefore relies on the coolant by-pass to give it hot water to open.

These issues combine to cause the thermal cycling/ oscillations by the following mechanism:

    * Water returning from the radiator is so cold relative to the by-pass, it inappropriately closes the thermostat.
    * The engine in the meantime is still working hard and getting hotter.
    * However, the thermostat takes some time to open as the by-pass return coolant needs to warm the coolant at the thermostat, causing the engine to run too hot.
    * The thermostat then opens completely, dumping a bolus of cold water into the block/head.
    * Repeated cycles of hot/cold thermal cycling leads to the deterioration of the head gasket (at best!)."

Just for interests sake what do u mean exactly by Thermal shock and why does the distance to radiator make such a difference ?

Trigger

[quote="wisp"]
did I hear some one from the land of "we're still imperial while the rest of the world is metric" and "we're still flogging CDMA in a GSM world" mutter something about another countries engineering stubbornness and their slowness at getting on the same page as the rest of the globe?
[/quote]

3G networks are CDMA based so what's wrong with that

Ben

I'll second wisp - I think the thermal shock is a big/major/whatever reason - the K series was originally designed to be very close coupled to the radiator, and works well when it is (freelander not withstanding!) and when in 1.1/1.4 guise.

The 1.8 was turbocharged in the 75 near the end (it was cheaper/as powerful as the KV6, and MGR was saving money), and I don't *believe* that has any particular problems...

Rich

Well I can say from all the recent research I've done and technical experts that are associated with Rover, that I've spoken to, the 3 main reasons for HGF on the K series are:
1. Thermal shock - especially in Atoms and the "other whatsit car" where the radiator is mounted further from the motor than it is in the original Rover cars. A different type of thermostat and it's location was introduced on later models.
2. Plastic dowels - originally fitted to prevent the dowel corroding with the aluminum. All later HG kits come with replacement steel dowels.
3. Single layer gasket - the fix for most of the industry is to fit the MLS gasket kit. One mechanic mentioned to me that a current Mazda model has changed to a single layer gasket and mechanical workshops are seeing lots of late model cars with HGF as a result.


did I hear some one from the land of "we're still imperial while the rest of the world is metric" and "we're still flogging CDMA in a GSM world" mutter something about another countries engineering stubbornness and their slowness at getting on the same page as the rest of the globe?

I understand what you say Ben but this is a problem that almost all Lotus Elise owners with K-Series engines suffer from. Its not due to any coolant leak - and the lightness of the car shouldnt be causing the same issue that a Freelander would. Most Elises owners look after their cars really well - is it just the engines were never intended as a 'Sports' unit ?