Ariel.Club Forum

by **speedmachine** » Sat Aug 19, 2023 10:23 am

I think it has to do with the 425hp usa version, with our 315 no such problems off course

by **plip1953** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 12:43 pm

Sad wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:07 am
plip1953 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:44 am Is it possible/likely that the manual box in the 4 is any different/stronger than was used in the 3?
I would be extremely surprised if the 6sp in an AA4 is any better/stronger than what was in my AA3 (with 425bhp). It’s still just a K20/K24 (same bellhousing).

In the pic, you’re looking at what is considered "upgraded" gears. They get the tranny from Honda and replace the stock gears with a set of ‘drag’ gears from MFactory…. Pictured is their idea of an upgraded gearset - chryo-hardened (sp?).

Turns out, the MFactory "upgraded" gears are Chinese metal…. And only about 2/3 to 3/4 as hard (on the rockwell hardness test) as they need to be for the job they’re asked to do.

I’ve probably already said too much before someone at TMI or Ariel UK gets upset with me. The thread starter can PM me for more info if they’d like to.

My latest info is that the synchros were a weak point on earlier Honda 6 speeds, but no particular issues with the gears.

by **John Scherrer** » Fri Aug 18, 2023 8:59 am

You did !

See earlier post Thur Aug 17th at 3:20am

by **Sad** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 11:30 pm

I swear i added an image as an attachment to my post. Guess not. Lets try this again.

by **Sad** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:07 am

plip1953 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:44 am Is it possible/likely that the manual box in the 4 is any different/stronger than was used in the 3?

I would be extremely surprised if the 6sp in an AA4 is any better/stronger than what was in my AA3 (with 425bhp). It’s still just a K20/K24 (same bellhousing).

In the pic, you’re looking at what is considered "upgraded" gears. They get the tranny from Honda and replace the stock gears with a set of ‘drag’ gears from MFactory…. Pictured is their idea of an upgraded gearset - chryo-hardened (sp?).

Turns out, the MFactory "upgraded" gears are Chinese metal…. And only about 2/3 to 3/4 as hard (on the rockwell hardness test) as they need to be for the job they’re asked to do.

I’ve probably already said too much before someone at TMI or Ariel UK gets upset with me. The thread starter can PM me for more info if they’d like to.

by **speedmachine** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 9:01 am

another addition for the sequential camp. The mapping is fabulous and it is butterly smooth on the road, the clutch used is like a normal car and it drives as smooth as a manual as long as you are moving, heavy traffic is a little jerky, but nothing as problematic as described by some without owning one themselves

i was heavily doubting this box a I owned a Mono and loved it on track but on the street everything other than WOT was terrible'ish. This quaife is just fabulous and one can VERY easily live with it on the street.

dont forget most owners take it out to DRIVE and enjoy, not to go to work in traffic. That 1 or 2 times during ownership that you do get caught in traffic it is jerkey, yes, but I enjoy it even than, it makes the feeling so special, even on low speeds. WIth a manual it is smooth, but not so special, it feels like a civic without windshield...I like the racecarvibe

also the gearing is perfect for the atom, so much better than the totally unsuited honda box

sequential 4 to me is the perfect balance between Mono racecar vibe and comfort
for reference, I also owned 2 manual older atoms

just my 2 cents

by **speedmachine** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 8:57 am

plip1953 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:44 am Is it possible/likely that the manual box in the 4 is any different/stronger than was used in the 3?

the 4 box has nothing to do with the 3 box

by **K20A2** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:55 am

I could not answer that from knowledge, but the Civic Turbo K20 engine (Atom 4) has about twice the tourque of the Civic NA K20 engine (Atom 2, 3, 3.5) so I would be surprised if it was not...

by **plip1953** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 7:44 am

Is it possible/likely that the manual box in the 4 is any different/stronger than was used in the 3?

by **Sad** » Thu Aug 17, 2023 2:20 am

I have a 3RS (which is 425bhp)…. I changed from Honda 6sp to Quaife sequential. I drive on the road and heavily track.

IF you track your yet-to-be-purchased Atom, then you WILL eat/kill transmissions. Starting with 4th gear…. And the shrapnel takes out the rest.

In the Honda enthusiast community these are referred to as "glass" because they break so readily.

Go to the main Ariel.Club on Facebook. Search “Atom 4th gear" and you see more carnage than you’d care to.

Here’s my first 6sp failure:

by **Dee** » Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:31 am

Thanks everyone for all your comments and valuable input. Part of me thinks I have learn to use the clutch and get to grips with the sequential box for road and the other is saying get a manual. I guess doing more track days would push towards a sequential box and living with it on the road.

Cheers
Dee

by **plip1953** » Mon Aug 14, 2023 7:12 am

Peter255 wrote: ↑Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:03 am Remember the sequential is stated by Ariel as "Track Use Only - No warranty".
It is not made for road use and servicing sequential for road use might be problematic and costly.
We don't know how the clutches and gears will last yet on the sequential 4s.
They are not smooth so would likely annoy in "stop start" traffic.
IMO if your car is predominantly a road car its a bad compromise. But its personal choice.
Remember the Honda H pattern is a joy in the 4.

Obviously for track only weapons there is no question if you can afford the additional cost.

Enjoy your car either way.

Ariel don't offer a formal warranty on any part of the car, although I think in the case of a broken gearbox there would neither be much chance of a goodwill fix. Nevertheless it must be supplied "fit for purpose".

There are no internal clutches associated with this kind of gearbox.

There's little doubt that this kind of gearbox is far less at home when the car is being used in traffic, but this is when you will most likely need to develop making use of the clutch when shifting.

In general, sequential boxes much prefer the kind of driving that's normally associated with being on the track, but the quality of the mapping for the Atom 4 application really does seem to make it a viable option for road use too.

by **autobackup** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:48 am

Having had a very short play with a sequential Atom on the road I also stalled it once or twice until the owner told me to use the paddle and clutch as if I were driving a manual gearbox car which solved the problem - but I would wholeheartedly agree with Peter255' opinion that for road use the sequential is reasonably difficult to use as intended for clutchless flat shifting which in traffic is often not possible - I imagine that it would be brilliant on track but realistically not so brilliant on the road for extended periods stuck in traffic!

However I must say that for the short time I drove it it was great fun!!

by **Dee** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:12 am

Thanks Peter, I like the idea of a paddle shift box but I would like a smooth ride also on the road. It could be a costly mistake either way. I guess I need to drive the manual and then decide. I put the stalling down to me being a total novice.

Cheers
Dee

by **Peter255** » Sun Aug 13, 2023 10:03 am

Remember the sequential is stated by Ariel as "Track Use Only - No warranty".
It is not made for road use and servicing sequential for road use might be problematic and costly.
We don't know how the clutches and gears will last yet on the sequential 4s.
They are not smooth so would likely annoy in "stop start" traffic.
IMO if your car is predominantly a road car its a bad compromise. But its personal choice.
Remember the Honda H pattern is a joy in the 4.

Obviously for track only weapons there is no question if you can afford the additional cost.

Enjoy your car either way.

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