Fox suspension settings

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Expand view Topic review: Fox suspension settings

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Antong » Wed Mar 03, 2021 2:08 pm

[mention]Mutley[/mention]

Thanks, I misinterpreted the off-road settings, assuming they were the factory ones.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Karl V » Fri Feb 26, 2021 8:38 pm

Mutley wrote: Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:18 pm that's what I roll with now on and off-road
Absolute pun intended I hope Chris!

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Fri Feb 26, 2021 7:18 pm

Hi [mention]Antong[/mention] ,

Probably takes a bit of de-ciphering. But it's all in the pic. above on my shed door ;)

The column on the left is the factory 'road' settings. The column on the right is where I ended up after the off-road experimentations.

HSC = High speed compression
LSC = Low speed compression
RB = re-bound

Numbers are clicks.

Like Karl, as I preferred the off-road settings on road that's what I roll with now on and off-road.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Antong » Tue Feb 16, 2021 4:38 pm

[mention]Mutley[/mention] what were your final settings in the end?

Now I've moved to a bigger tyre on a smaller rim the additional weight has made the rebound a little more sluggish. I'm interested try other peoples setups :)

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:50 pm

:tu: Roll on! Yeeha!

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Karl V » Sat Sep 05, 2020 6:04 pm

Excellent work Chris!

Like you, I'm happy with my current set up off road as well as Her Queen's Highways. The extra little bit of sloppiness works wonders for getting the back end out too ;)

Looking forward to tomorrow Sir.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Sat Sep 05, 2020 5:39 pm

Having finally spent some time setting up my Foxes for the forthcoming Salisbury hoon, this is what I learnt.

Followed Karl’s thread it seemed clear that my car had left the factory with road-orientated settings (indeed Steve told me this when I picked it up), I was as reported above, pretty happy – it seemed a massive improvement on the un-adjustable Bilsteins.

So I finally put aside some time to try to get them the way I wanted off-road. Our half-mile long dirt drive was pretty handy. It’s fast and loose at one end and muddy and pot-holey at the other. There’s also no speed limit 😊

Firstly then the lockrings. These were very easy to unlock and move up the shocks as Karl reported. No jacking of car required. With what looked like an inch or so of extra travel un-locked we did a reference run with my son as spotter. He reported that the previously locked-out top shorter spring was no indeed moving. We both reckoned that this spring is actually stiffer than the lower longer one and seems to work as a sort of sprung bump-stop which would make sense.

The car already felt more able to absorb the bigger bumps so happier straight away.

So then we set about the damping. I didn’t have all day so evaded best practice of making only single gradual changes. Previous experience suggested the following plan to me: Use some sort of logic to plan a combination of changes – and make them large enough to notice. Test drive and dial out anything you don’t like.

Fox use a slightly bizarre sort of reverse calibration where the highest number is the least damping and the lowest number the most. Yup, odd. The number of clicks available is as below:

High speed compression: 22
Low speed compression: 24
Rebound: 22

You can see form my garage wallchart what the factory road settings were. So about one third from stiffest – which makes sense for the road.

[Imgur](

So I dialled the damping down by a few clicks. Next run felt better still with the shocks more free to respond to bumps. Doing a series of runs meant some fine tuning then. The key thing we dialled in that we then had to dial out was a sort of flutter or oscillation from the rear at low speeds. So this was the only setting that actually went back to the original: Rear LSC stayed at 8 clicks.

[Imgur](

Have to say was ecstatic with the outcome. The Nomad in the rough like I always thought is should.

[Imgur](

However, what about the road? My expectation was to have to return it to the road settings. So before I did I thought ‘let’s give it a try.’ I have to say I was fully expecting a wallowy ride with way too much body roll.

However, to my amazement, it felt as much improved on the road as off. I am sure it wouldn’t have felt right on track. But given the generally appalling state of our B and back-roads (where the Nomad is the most fun on-road anyway) it felt absolutely ideal. The car squats a bit more under hard acceleration, but actually seems less prone to hooligan style oversteer in exiting roundabouts (maybe a negative?!).

Anyway, it staying as it is now. Moving to Fox suspension made the car hugely more enjoyable, and liberating the shocks with more travel and generally reduced damping has taken enjoyment of the car another step on.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Sat Nov 02, 2019 6:06 pm

Hi Karl,

Thanks for that. Have to admit I did some more research and had a bit of a 'Doh' moment. :-)

I had incorreclty become convinced that the tender spring was heavier gauge. Strangely it does look a bit that way, but reading up on Fox shox setups, I realised that it can't be. As such, it clearly comes into play first as the shock compresses. So with the factory road settings the helper spring barely comes into play (I at least got this bit right!)

What was interesting is how disparaging the US off-roading 'buggy' community (who are clearly THE market for these kind of set-ups) were of any dual spring set-up that doesn't use the crossover ring set-up the Fox shocks has. The received wisdom appears to be that two differntly springs not separated by a cross-over ring just add up to the equivalent of the combined total. The only use of the helper in that situation is to help the shock from clatttering as it tops out (didn't seem to work very well with the Bilstein dual spring set-up in my view!).

Terrible weather has kept me off the road (or is that off the off-road?). Knowing how the dual spring/crossover set-up works now I can see how adding a few inches of soft spring travel by raising the cross-over ring should wok perfectly off-road (even if it seems quite an extreme change to the road settings?). It ought to work better than the much cruder approach of decreasing pre-load at the top of the shock (crude because it would also lower ride height - not great for off-road).

I also don't really see why it should be necessary to jack the car up to change the crossover ring either up or down - but I guess I'll find out.

When I finally get a chance to play around, my goal with the settings will be this: Find a spring/damper/tyre pressure setting that seems optimised for off-road, so that I can make the changes as quickly as possible to go off-road and vice versa. Given how much better the Foxes seem on-road, I think that getting the two settings spot-on could release a massive amount of latent potential from the Nomad. I feel even more confident about the Fox shocks now I know how much different they are to the 2 spring Bilsteins.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Karl V » Thu Oct 31, 2019 9:47 pm

Mutley wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:14 pm I think I get the dual spring set up on the Bilsteins. The tender spring is the small square section spring designed be nearly fully compressed at a standstill to prevent the suspension constantly topping out over rises and jumps. It doesn’t really seem to work that way – but that’s another matter!
Yeah, that or a helper spring, which is designed more to expand during decompression to stop the main spring from falling out of the seat; and little to do with absorbing compression.
Mutley wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:14 pm But then how does winding the crossover ring all the way up make the suspension more suitable for off-road use? (and remember Fox actually only allow you a few mm to play with according to the manual?)
My understanding here is that by 'getting rid' of the locking rings, you are allowing both springs to compress along the length of the shock, rather than just the bottom spring + 5mm. As you say, 5mm of travel for the top spring really just makes it a 5mm spring - or pseudo bump stop. Allowing both springs to travel as a single unit should - in my mind - make for longer travel and therefore better absorption of bigger bumps.

Have you had a chance to play yet Chris?

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Tue Oct 29, 2019 9:14 pm

OK have to admit I’m puzzled. I downloaded what I assume is the user manual from here: https://www.ridefox.com/fox_tech_center ... 7_RevA.pdf

As far as I can see the twin lock rings position is determined by a formula based on shock travel spring rate etc. The way it’s described it seems that this is a one-off setting. As Karl points out the Ariel factory setting allows a surprisingly small 5mm of travel of the tender spring.

Although Fox say that the crossover point is ‘tunable’, the percentage rate spread they describe suggest this would be only over a very narrow range.

Based on a pretty basic knowledge of setting up dirt bikes, the first thing I would want to do to make a bike more suitable for off-road would be to reduce the spring pre-load – or in other words soften the spring.

Given everything I have to hand on the Fox shox this is where I get lost straight away.

I think I get the dual spring set up on the Bilsteins. The tender spring is the small square section spring designed be nearly fully compressed at a standstill to prevent the suspension constantly topping out over rises and jumps. It doesn’t really seem to work that way – but that’s another matter!

Whereas – the Fox suspension is to me – a mystery. The ‘tender’ spring is heavier gauge and more tightly wound. i. e. a stiffer spring. And then there is the crossover lock. I would love to see the shock in action to see how the springs interact. But as I can’t this is what I think must happen:

The lower (lighter) lower spring compresses until it begins to move the bottom of the upper spring. It moves this – for 5mm... until the spring couple hits the crossover lock. Surely this is therefore nothing more than a springy bump-stop? Maybe that is what you want for road-use? But then how does winding the crossover ring all the way up make the suspension more suitable for off-road use? (and remember Fox actually only allow you a few mm to play with according to the manual?)

Surely what you want is softer springs? In which case, as well as releasing more travel by raising the crossover ring you ought to wind up the top pre-load ring (as you would on a dirt bike?)

I would be quite happy to experiment to find out – except you would spend so much time fiddling that none of your weekend would be left for driving.

I’m not worried about the damping settings – they are easy to change and all quite conventional. I just want to know – what do I need to do to my spring settings to switch between road and off road – and why?!

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Karl V » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:37 pm

If you want to 'unwind' the locking rings to benefit from full suspension travel (as I did), you don't have to jack the car up because there is no load on the locking rings. You're really just moving them out of the way so that they don't hinder suspension travel.

If you want to 'tighten it up' though, I suspect you would need to get some of the load off the springs to position the rings to fit snuggly when the car is at rest.

Although how far 'down' to set the rings, I'm not sure. It makes sense to me to have them so that they are retarding the top spring movement when the car is at rest. Any further down will probably start to affect ride height; but this is based on my assumption.

Maybe someone else has more professional advice ;-)

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Mutley » Wed Oct 16, 2019 5:19 pm

Having just moved to Fox at my last service I am going to have to learn how to adjust my shox too. I was delighted with the ride home from the factory so I guess they were set up for the road.

Is it necessary to jack the car to unlock the lock-rings ? That's a slight PITA.

I don't have a manual. Is that something that can be found online?

Thx.

Re: Fox suspension settings

by HenryJS » Wed Oct 16, 2019 10:13 am

No Problem at all - its always best to ask! If ever in doubt - you can always ring me at the factory and ask for advice. Its why we are here! :tu:

Re: Fox suspension settings

by marcusjames » Mon Oct 14, 2019 4:30 pm

Thanks everyone for the replies. I'll have a play at the weekend.

Henry, apologies for not paying enough attention when you explained that in person. I was like that at school! In my defence, I did ask the friend I was with to listen to you while I admired the car......he let me down ;)

Re: Fox suspension settings

by Karl V » Mon Oct 14, 2019 10:15 am

The gap is only around 5mm between the floating seat and the factory's position of the locking rings, but yes - best to treat front and rear the same.

As it happens, I went in the opposite direction with the locking rings to smooth out suspension travel, but again - treating front and rear the same.

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