Ariel.Club Forum

15 months in, Mini E drivers sound happy.
Of course, so were GM EV1 lessees. It stands to reason that first adopters have already decided pros outweigh cons.

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2010/10/bmws-mini-e-drivers-lead-the-electric-car-wave/1
http://www.dailyrecord.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=2010101015115

I'm surprised and a little disappointed that the cold weather issue didn't rate a mention in a New Jersey report.

That '13 Amp' 3 pin socket in the photo is just that ! 13 Amps.

See the size of that switch alongside? Compare it to the size of the switch for the cooker outlet !

The cooker 30 Amp circuit is fed by a dedicated 6mm copper cable from the fuse box/circuit breaker/consumer unit.
In theory, the 13 Amp socket should be fed by a 2.5mm radial or ring circuit.

If I recall, you cannot just run another thick cable to another outlet as the sum of all the fuses/circuit breakers in the property mustn't exceed the capacity of the "House Fuse" which typically in the UK is probably only 60 Amp.

John

[quote="Alec"]
[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="AlanP"]
Ben,

I have a 32A supply at mine to run a pool heater, single phase, no big deal, commando socket.

A
[/quote]

Not a big deal but most existing garage sockets are 13A as per standard sockets.
[/quote]

Actually, virtually every house in the UK has a 30A supply as standard. The cooker circuit in the kitchen.

As most of these also have a normal switched socket along with the cooker switch, this means there is a 30A outlet to be plugged into as well (see photo below).

I'm sure that a second circuit like this is easy to add in the garage, especially if this is where your circuit breaker/fuse board is located.
[/quote]

Where would you buy a 30A fused plug to plug something into that socket ? ;)

If the garage is where your fuse box was located then yes it would be very easy to add a 30A feed.  But in most cases it isn't so it isn't.

Ben

edited to add you don't get cooker sockets like that these days, not sure if that is due to wiring regulations or a general trend. Sadly my brother in law who is a sparks has just gone to bed so can't ask him

[quote="benyeats"]
[quote="AlanP"]
Ben,

I have a 32A supply at mine to run a pool heater, single phase, no big deal, commando socket.

A
[/quote]

Not a big deal but most existing garage sockets are 13A as per standard sockets.
[/quote]

Actually, virtually every house in the UK has a 30A supply as standard. The cooker circuit in the kitchen.

As most of these also have a normal switched socket along with the cooker switch, this means there is a 30A outlet to be plugged into as well (see photo below).

I'm sure that a second circuit like this is easy to add in the garage, especially if this is where your circuit breaker/fuse board is located.

Autoblog: [url=http://www.autoblog.com/2009/12/28/mini-e-range-plummets-as-winter-hits-the-northeast/]Mini E range plummets as winter hits the northeast[/url]

[quote="fiestycolumbian"]
Gets me to work and back no problem.
[/quote]

This is the crux of the issue.  On other motoring fora I read whenever electric cars and range are mentioned numerous doubters chip in with "my commute is 200 miles it would never work therefore electric cars are rubbish"  My commute is 16 miles so an electric car would be perfect, if only they made one with a V8 ;)

BMW/Mini had a terrible time trying to get the installs done. A lot of homes prior to 1990 just didnt have the room in the electrical boxes for a 40-60amp 240V breaker.

UL certification was also very tricky. Just recently the charging cable was changed because the previous cable was not UL certified.

I am 6 months in, and the car is great fun. Gets me to work and back no problem. The torque from the motor is fantastic. At any speed from 30-70mph, a quick stab of the throttle, the torque just spins the tires. Traction control always works overtime  ;D(cant disable it :doh:)
Hadnt had any techinical issues in terms of being stranded on the road. The car does occasionally put itself into neutral, and I have to restart the car, and I also have had one of the battery sections fail, but everything else works great.

If you guys have any questions on electric cars, I would be glad to answer them.

fiesty

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
In the UK, I believe 240V is the standard voltage and there isn't normally a 2-phase residential system (since that would get you to 480V).
[/quote]

That is what I was getting at yes !

[quote="benyeats"]
30 Amps is more than the sockets in any domestic garage I know of.  I would also be semi surprised if US 240V supplies for appliances are capable of supplying 30Amps but have not really had a look at any US wiring. [/quote]

It is certainly more than general-purpose receptacle can offer. However, special appliance receptacles are quite standard. [url=http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=172500-83-WX9X10]Here[/url] is a 50A cord for an electric stove.

[quote]I suspect the article is confusing 2-phase and 3-phase supplies.  In the UK at least a 3-phase supply would be necessary to supply 30A and charge your electric car in short order, this would require special installation by your electricity board.

In the US as Terry hinted I think you are more likely to have a 3-phase supply to your house for 240V appliances using 2 of those phases, I also think quite a few European countries have 3-phases to each property (in the UK each home has a single phase, with adjacent properties on different phases on a cycle of 3! )[/quote]

I expect there are some terminology differences between the US and UK here. In the US, standard home lights and receptacles are 120V, with one leg being grounded and the other being "hot". With 240V you can pull twice the power, using another "hot" leg 180 degrees out-of-phase with the first one. You use both hot legs. If the device you're using has a "low" setting (for example, a stove or clothes dryer), the heating element can be run at half power by connecting it to one hot leg and the grounded leg. The advantage is that you can use the same size wires and draw twice the power with 240V, since the grounded leg won't be passing any current in this case.

In the UK, I believe 240V is the standard voltage and there isn't normally a 2-phase residential system (since that would get you to 480V).

[quote="Terry Kennedy"]
[quote="WorkingOnIt"]
[b]Mini E Field Test Highlights Roadblocks Facing Electric Cars[/b]
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2009/11/mini-e-field-test/
[size=80]If you are in a house with a normal supply and you want to bring a 240-volt [charger], you have to have an agreement from the power utility," O'Donnell says. "New Jersey is the most difficult because there are so many local authorities." ...
What O'Donnell calls "the New Jersey problem" is compounded because "all the [charging system] components are [UL] certified, but they say the system isn't certified," he says.
"We are dealing with only three metropolitan areas of the United States," he says. "Think about when you start to build the national network and all those local codes"[/size][/quote]

That quote doesn't seem to appear in the current version of the article...
[/quote]

oops, my mistake.  The quote came from a different article I was looking at:  http://reviews.cnet.com/8301-13746_7-10357653-48.html  that I didn't link after I found the more recent one (kids, don't drink and cut/paste).  Jim O'Donnell (quoted) is CEO of BMW of North America.

More BMW electric updates can be found with searches of "BMW electric subbrand" or "BMW megacity"
eg. http://www.leftlanenews.com/carbon-fiber-goes-downmarket-bmw-megacity-to-use-cf-on-large-scale.html

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
As I understand it, it's pretty easy to get a high amperage socket installed, though.

The tricky bit comes when you have more than one electric car and they each have different plugs!
[/quote]

Getting a 3-phase supply to your residential property is probably not that easy or rather it is probably easy just not simple

As I understand it, it's pretty easy to get a high amperage socket installed, though.

The tricky bit comes when you have more than one electric car and they each have different plugs!

[quote="AlanP"]
Ben,

I have a 32A supply at mine to run a pool heater, single phase, no big deal, commando socket.

A
[/quote]

Not a big deal but most existing garage sockets are 13A as per standard sockets.

Ben,

I have a 32A supply at mine to run a pool heater, single phase, no big deal, commando socket.

A

[quote="Bruce Fielding"]
We have 220/240 volts as standard in Europe and 30 amps is no big deal.

I wonder who this MINI is really aimed at?
[/quote]

30 Amps is more than the sockets in any domestic garage I know of.  I would also be semi surprised if US 240V supplies for appliances are capable of supplying 30Amps but have not really had a look at any US wiring. 

I suspect the article is confusing 2-phase and 3-phase supplies.  In the UK at least a 3-phase supply would be necessary to supply 30A and charge your electric car in short order, this would require special installation by your electricity board. 

In the US as Terry hinted I think you are more likely to have a 3-phase supply to your house for 240V appliances using 2 of those phases, I also think quite a few European countries have 3-phases to each property (in the UK each home has a single phase, with adjacent properties on different phases on a cycle of 3! )

The grid problem will be solved with smart meters / appliances and better load management by utilities, perhaps even including the grid borrowing energy back from your car's battery at peak times.

Ben