how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

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Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Quark » Thu Nov 23, 2006 6:50 pm

Botoz, FYI i was just at the Brammo factory and noticed a new prototype design for the bold on roll bar. More of a curve on the top bar. Looks very nice.  Dont know if it is available yet. 

I cant stand the look of the original but would consider the new one. It is still using the same diameter tubing.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Bottoz » Wed Nov 01, 2006 11:13 pm

[quote="krispy"]
Hi Bottoz,

I ordered a 2.8in pulley.  It should be here in a week.  what mods do you plan on running on your atom with the 2.8 in pullet?


[/quote]

I've ordered the 230 aka GM Stage 1. Since I'll be losing 3psi due to altitude, I want to get the performance I paid for. Therefor, I'll be switching to an 2.8 at first... to see where that puts me after some Dyno Runs (Yes Bruce, I said the D word) and 1/4 pulls (OMG, someone driving an Atom in a straight line.. GASP!) If I'm satisfied with the 2.8 I'll leave it there, then swap back to the stock pulley when I do track days at lower altitude (including Atom Fest 07). I'll monitor A/F ratio and injector duty to see if I can go to a 2.6.

I may fab some side panels myself... and may do some fluid changes after engine brake in (Blue Marble Oil, ATE Super Blue brake fluid, GM Synchro Mesh tranny fluid, Redline Water Wetter for the Intercooler.) And possibly a custom removable Roll Bar when required for Time Trial or Wheel to Wheel racing groups.

I'm on a budget. Grass Roots racing. Can't get all carbon fiber this and that, and can't afford the factory 300. So... gotta make due with what I've learned in past vehicles.

Krisy (or any other US Atom 300 owners) - could you hook up a boost guage and let us know how much pressure the blower on the 300 is making?

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by krispy » Wed Nov 01, 2006 9:13 pm

Hi Bottoz,

I ordered a 2.8in pulley.  It should be here in a week.  what mods do you plan on running on your atom with the 2.8 in pullet?

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Bottoz » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:04 pm

I thought the Brammo 300 was a 7k redline. Either way, the M62 Recomended Max Continuous Blower Speed = 16,000 rpms. With a 2.8, blower speed is 14,000 rpms at 6,250 rpms.

The Stock ECOTEC does have an ECU controlled bypass valve. Here's some info on that:
The boost bypass system on our superchargers has three parts: the solinoid, the actuator, and the butterfly valve (normally closed). The actuator is a diaphram/piston that has two chambers and a small metal shaft that connects to the buterfly valve. When the ECU triggers boost bypass, it opens a soliniod allowing charged air (in the range on 12+ psi stock to about 18+ with a very small pulley) to fill one of the chambers of the actuator. When this happens the piston in the actuator pulls on the shaft which opens the butterfly valve allowing charged air back into the inlet side of the supercharger instead of forcing that air into the engine.

The ECU uses boost bypass to bleed off some of the boost just before you hit the rev limiter to prevent damage from the engine getting fuel (or spark) cut off at maximum boost. The problem with this is that if you change the pulley, the computer detects that you are hitting the "maximum boost" (near 13 psi) and opens the bypass while you still have a lot of RPM's left to climb.

The idea of boost bypass is that if you allow the computer to open the solinoid, but do not allow the charged air to reach the piston chamber on the actuator, the butterfly (bypass) valve will never open. Many people on this board have this mod done, and it is considered a 'safe' mod, but remember that you are disabling an engine protection feature.

The following statement is true for a stock or near stock setup, but with signifantly smaller pulleys the boost bypass opens earlier:

The boost bypass valve opens up at 6,000rpm and bleeds boost off untill redline. The bypass mod disables it keeping it closed all the way up untill redline. You will see no difference in power under 6,000 rpms if you disable it. They only increase in power comes after 6000 rpms where you will see an additional 10hp gain in peak hp.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by RyanD » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:43 pm

[quote="krispy"]
Bottoz,

You are right, I looked at the email Brammo sent, and he gave me the outside and inside size, and
I read it wrong.  The Pulley is a 3.00 (inside).  So I should get a 2.7/2.6, now what do I have to do?

[/quote]

Keep in mind that a smaller pulley with the 8000RPM redline on the 300HP engine may put you close to the RPM limit for the supercharger.  Someone should be able to do that calculation.

Also, an absolute pressure pop-off valve would protect your engine when you go from elevation to sea level.  I'm not sure if such a thing exists though.  I know they make gage pressure pop-off valves for turbo engines.  They also make absolute pressure boost controllers for turbo engines.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Bottoz » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:17 pm

I'm ordering the 230... that has the stock 3.35 inch pulley. I'll be changing to a 2.8 soon as I get it.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by kenazusa » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:15 pm

Kris - you be the guinea pig, and I'll jump on the bandwagon.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Bottoz » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:13 pm

[quote="krispy"]
Bottoz,

You are right, I looked at the email Brammo sent, and he gave me the outside and inside size, and
I read it wrong.  The Pulley is a 3.00 (inside).  So I should get a 2.7/2.6, now what do I have to do?

Ken,
Well, I guess we will have to mod both of our atoms. 
[/quote]

Ok, if it comes with a 3 inch... to gain back the 2-3psi lost (and gain the HP lost) you'll need about a 2.8. That should put you back to factory HP ratings.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by krispy » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:03 pm

Bottoz,

You are right, I looked at the email Brammo sent, and he gave me the outside and inside size, and
I read it wrong.  The Pulley is a 3.00 (inside).  So I should get a 2.7/2.6, now what do I have to do?

Ken,
Well, I guess we will have to mod both of our atoms. 

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Quark » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:49 pm

Will Do. Actually he will be at Brammo on the 8-10. Thanks for the update. Would love to see images of your car at his estate. He has a beautiful circular driveway with a fountain that would make a great backdrop to your car if you have a nice digital camera.
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Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by kenazusa » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:39 pm

Hog Haulers is delivering it by the end of next week. Let Gary know I'll call him and be up there by Nov 12. I'm planning on meeting Krispy up in Prescott and then heading over the hill.

;D ;D ;D

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Quark » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:28 pm

Hello Ken, have you received your car yet?  Gary is excited to say hello and take a look.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by kenazusa » Thu Oct 26, 2006 3:05 pm

Kris - How am I going to keep up when I drive up to Prescott to visit?

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Bottoz » Thu Oct 26, 2006 5:42 am

[quote="krispy"]
The Pulley is the stock 3.35.  I just ordered the modular pulley system with a 3.1 pulley, which is suppose to give me an additional 2.2 pounds of boost with no other mods required.  I will work with this size, and see how it goes.  I can also get pulleys down to 2.5 as I get more adventurous.  This is my first time modding a car, it scares the cr@p out of me to be playing with my new atom like this. 
[/quote]
Woah... what? Brammo is making 300hp out of the stock Eaton M62 pulley? That doesn't seem right at all. The stock ECOTEC makes 205hp with a 3.35 pulley. To get 300hp there has to be more boost made from the SuperCharger. I'd guess, that the 300hp Brammo ECOTEC Atom is using a 2.8 or 2.6 inch SC Pulley. 2.6 is the smallest you can go on a M62 Snout... any smaller and you need to grind down the snout because the pulley will rub.

Krispy... I don't mean to doubt you, but please re-measure the supercharger pulley. I Think the GM Spec stage 2, 245hp ECOTEC comes with the 3.1 inch pulley.

Re: how much power is lost at 5200ft above sea level

by Quark » Thu Oct 26, 2006 4:18 am

Regarding the pictures, I've been sorting through the 2000+ pictures I shot and have been narrowing it down. Currently I have a set of 415 pictures, which is probably still too large. Stay tuned...
[quote][/quote]

Hello Terry,  i stumbled upon an interesting way to show others your pictures without bogging down their computers and pasting a link to this forum.  Upload your images to slide.com and mess around with the fade effects.

Very cool.

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