Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

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Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by Italianpaul » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:44 am

wasp wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:16 am
Italianpaul wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:44 pm
Are you running with 320 or 350 with/without wings?

I am very interested as to how you got on at Cadwell with the Atom as its my local and hopefully will be doing a few days there in the new year once I collect my 4 due early next year.

I would have thought that Cadwell would really suit a 4 with wings due to the long sweeping turns.
350 with wings.

Cadwell is awesome in an Atom, it really plays to its strengths.

The wings are definitely adding to the stability, I haven't pushed too far beyond mechanical grip yet but fast corners and in the rain (again) at Donnington the car felt incredibly planted.

I haven't had a consistent weather day yet to be able to try and really see what the aero feels like but fingers crossed I'll be at Spa for a couple of days later in the month which should really show how well it works.

I will say that the 320 car is still a very fast car, the 350 car in map 2 is probably the best all-rounder though. 350 in map 3 is proper hooligan mode. It may well not be quicker over a lap than map 2 but it's a lot more entertaining.

Cheers,
Stu
Thanks for that Stu, I like the look of the wings( I know its a emotive subject) but I just wonder if my heart is ruling my head as the cost is quite substantial against any gain in performance.

I look forward to your review once you have been to Bedford with and without wings(weather permitting)

Thanks

Paul.

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by wasp » Wed Sep 09, 2020 8:16 am

Italianpaul wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:44 pm
Are you running with 320 or 350 with/without wings?

I am very interested as to how you got on at Cadwell with the Atom as its my local and hopefully will be doing a few days there in the new year once I collect my 4 due early next year.

I would have thought that Cadwell would really suit a 4 with wings due to the long sweeping turns.
350 with wings.

Cadwell is awesome in an Atom, it really plays to its strengths.

The wings are definitely adding to the stability, I haven't pushed too far beyond mechanical grip yet but fast corners and in the rain (again) at Donnington the car felt incredibly planted.

I haven't had a consistent weather day yet to be able to try and really see what the aero feels like but fingers crossed I'll be at Spa for a couple of days later in the month which should really show how well it works.

I will say that the 320 car is still a very fast car, the 350 car in map 2 is probably the best all-rounder though. 350 in map 3 is proper hooligan mode. It may well not be quicker over a lap than map 2 but it's a lot more entertaining.

Cheers,
Stu

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by Italianpaul » Tue Sep 08, 2020 4:44 pm

wasp wrote: Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:39 am So,
I bought the wings for my 4 as I fell in love with the looks (appreciating subjectivity) but I also wanted the aero benefit on track.

I have done so far 1 day without the wings (Combe) fitted and 2 days with them (Snetterton and Cadwell.)

I still have a lot to learn about the car but having run with a mate in a 3.5R on my second day I can definitively say that the drag feels significant. The stability and grip around faster corners is excellent but the trade off for acceleration and top speed feels pronounced.
On the first day at Snetterton I was just bedding in but the car felt like it was being held back down the two main straights (sort of like the 3.5 did above 120) and I was struggling to haul in cars that should have been easier to catch. It was capable of 100mph around Coram though (I'm not sure how that would compare without the aero as the grip on the A052's is epic.)

Without wings at Combe, the car felt like a beast, with them for the other days it felt like it could take a fair chunk more power >:D

I'm doing Bedford in a few weeks and if it's dry< I'm going to run with wings in the morning, then take them off at lunchtime to compare the feeling.

Cheers,
Stu
Are you running with 320 or 350 with/without wings?

I am very interested as to how you got on at Cadwell with the Atom as its my local and hopefully will be doing a few days there in the new year once I collect my 4 due early next year.

I would have thought that Cadwell would really suit a 4 with wings due to the long sweeping turns.

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by tuscanracer » Mon Sep 07, 2020 8:25 pm

Proper wind tunnel tested and proven Aero, thank you Mr Drewell 👏
A9C397A9-EB2F-41FB-8D2A-492B1F49F45B.jpeg
A9C397A9-EB2F-41FB-8D2A-492B1F49F45B.jpeg (103.99 KiB) Viewed 485 times

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by Anon » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:49 am

CAG3D wrote: Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:47 pm Simon, what exactly does that do, just lap times? Who is fitting it for you?

I bought my Atom 18 months ago, only done 2 Track days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In Atom 4, it has a AIM msxl dash but it's more than just a dash it's also a datalogger and there are a ton of sensors and data it captures as it connects to the ECU. One additional module you can add to it is the GPS08 module - doing this gives you your lap times, sector times, braking zones, lateral forces etc etc. If you are a data geek you will have a lot of fun with this. The GPS08 uses the tracks stored in the dash, these can be updated based on new track layouts but in mine there are hundreds of tracks also. Ariel pre-load them, but you are able to update, delete them.

Then you can use AIM's software called Race Studio 3 to download and analyse your laptimes to see where you were slow, faster. The AIM stock dash Ariel created has a screen that shows whether you were faster/slower than the previous lap - it's nice right there in the dash. You only see this when the GPS module is connected.

I have my own GPS08 module but it needs to connect to the EXT+ and EXT- pins of the dash using a CAN connection. I could not see this exposed in the wiring loom so as my car is going back this week for it's service, I will ask Ariel to help rather than me pull it apart.

Race Technology has something similar it's just an additional box for their DASH2 and less sophisticated. Called DL1: https://www.race-technology.com/wiki/in ... troduction

I am familiar with AIM because this is used in Radicals and Ultimas.

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by CAG3D » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:08 am

That’s very quick indeed

Nice


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Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by wasp » Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:06 am

Didn't record overall lap times this time but top speed was recorded at 144.6mph. Was running road tyres zz's.

I think with A052's and pushing it could easily have been 10mph more tbh. It was my first day with it and I was being super careful.

Felt faster than my 3.5 but without pushing too hard. Previously ran in the 1.13's in the old car.

Cheers,
Stu
.

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by CAG3D » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:45 am

What was your lap times around Combe?


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Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by wasp » Mon Jul 06, 2020 8:39 am

So,
I bought the wings for my 4 as I fell in love with the looks (appreciating subjectivity) but I also wanted the aero benefit on track.

I have done so far 1 day without the wings (Combe) fitted and 2 days with them (Snetterton and Cadwell.)

I still have a lot to learn about the car but having run with a mate in a 3.5R on my second day I can definitively say that the drag feels significant. The stability and grip around faster corners is excellent but the trade off for acceleration and top speed feels pronounced.
On the first day at Snetterton I was just bedding in but the car felt like it was being held back down the two main straights (sort of like the 3.5 did above 120) and I was struggling to haul in cars that should have been easier to catch. It was capable of 100mph around Coram though (I'm not sure how that would compare without the aero as the grip on the A052's is epic.)

Without wings at Combe, the car felt like a beast, with them for the other days it felt like it could take a fair chunk more power >:D

I'm doing Bedford in a few weeks and if it's dry< I'm going to run with wings in the morning, then take them off at lunchtime to compare the feeling.

Cheers,
Stu

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by CAG3D » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:47 pm

Simon, what exactly does that do, just lap times? Who is fitting it for you?

I bought my Atom 18 months ago, only done 2 Track days.


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Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by Anon » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:42 pm

I'm a slow skinny runt on track, you'll be faster than me for sure. You have had your Atom a while as well? I have only just got mine and it's still being run in.

I do get my AIM gps 08 module fitted hopefully next week for some proper lap timing data in the car - can't wait!

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by CAG3D » Sun Jul 05, 2020 7:09 pm

I clearly can’t push a car like you guys do, downforce, 100mph cornering etc, the 2 track days I did last year, I just put my foot down and hold on for dear life! Still, not many cars can get past my average driving.
I will be interested to see if I get to follow some of you more experienced F1 esk drivers around a track, to see how much faster you’ll be against an old SC car with a fat bloke driving.


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Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by Anon » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:37 pm

F1 has been using Gurney flaps since at least 2012.

Mercedes 2012 - looks like the Atom 4 wing.
Mercedes w03.jpg
Mercedes w03.jpg (82.83 KiB) Viewed 1110 times
Mercedes 2016:
Mercedes 2016 wing.jpg
Mercedes 2016 wing.jpg (140.16 KiB) Viewed 1110 times
Mercedes 2019
Mercedes 2019 wing.jpg
Mercedes 2019 wing.jpg (193.56 KiB) Viewed 1110 times
Just because we don't drive at 200mph on track like an F1 car, try driving a car with proper aero like a Radical and even corning at 100mph you can feel it pushing you into the tarmac.

We know gurney flaps add drag in fact all wings do which is why F1 added DRS recently. But the benefit is more down force and more stable air flow. I am excited in trying them on track and even on the road - the road less so of course. Plus they look great, really thick carbon fibre.

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by GraemeW » Sun Jul 05, 2020 6:14 pm

another explanation. So Ariel are right in this design
http://www.formula1-dictionary.net/gurney_flap.html

Re: Atom 4 - Just a no no no...

by GraemeW » Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:50 pm

I think this explains it. The Gurney flap added to increase downforce without having to increase the angle of attack which causes excessive drag. Increasing the angle, increases downforce, but causes the drag. The Gurney flap is the compromise solution to get the same effect but without the same drag. I think Ive understood that right?
https://sites.google.com/site/danhirsch ... gurneyflap.

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